Talk:Pocahontas (1995 film): Difference between revisions

This is the talk page for discussing improvements to the Pocahontas (1995 film) article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject.

Put new text under old text. Click here to start a new topic. New to Wikipedia? Welcome! Learn to edit; get help. Assume good faith Be polite and avoid personal attacks Be welcoming to newcomers Seek dispute resolution if needed Article policies Neutral point of view No original research Verifiability

Find sources: Google (books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL

Archives: 1

Film: American C‑class

This article is within the scope of WikiProject Film. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see lists of open tasks and regional and topical task forces. To use this banner, please refer to the documentation. To improve this article, please refer to the guidelines.FilmWikipedia:WikiProject FilmTemplate:WikiProject Filmfilm articles C This article has been rated as C-class on Wikipedia's content assessment scale. This article is supported by the American cinema task force.

Animation: American C‑class High‑importance

This article is within the scope of WikiProject Animation, a collaborative effort to build an encyclopedic guide to animation on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, you can edit the article attached to this page, help out with the open tasks, or contribute to the discussion.AnimationWikipedia:WikiProject AnimationTemplate:WikiProject AnimationAnimation articles C This article has been rated as C-class on Wikipedia's content assessment scale. High This article has been rated as High-importance on the project's importance scale. This article is supported by the American animation work group (assessed as High-importance).

Disney C‑class High‑importance

This article is within the scope of WikiProject Disney, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of The Walt Disney Company and its affiliated companies on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.DisneyWikipedia:WikiProject DisneyTemplate:WikiProject DisneyDisney articles C This article has been rated as C-class on Wikipedia's content assessment scale. High This article has been rated as High-importance on the project's importance scale.

I was wondering, should it be added in to the page was this film made with the help of computers, or was it hand-drawn? Not just this film, but a lot of other "Disney Renaissance" films as well.. But Pocahontas especially features a distinct art style, reminiscent of many modern day computer drawn Disney films. I thought it was, but considering that computers weren't overly powerful at 1995.. Anyone happen to know if this was still hand-drawn? --Petrim (talk) 16:50, 27 February 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Can someone provide the plotline to the movie? --User:Angie Y.

This page was moved from "Pocahontas (1995 movie)" to "Pocahontas (1995 film)" as per the naming convention set out at Wikipedia:Naming conventions (films) – Ianblair23 (talk) 23:49, 12 October 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Mulan was also based on a true story, so I'm going to take out that part about Pocahontas being the only Disney film to be inspired by a true story. If anybody has any concerns, raise them, but it doesn't seem as if people post much on this discussion page... Highconclave 10:51, 25 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]

• I thought Mulan was based on the poem, which itself was put together from a series of events and legends. BethEnd 08:00, 9 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]

• The tale of Mulan is considered a legend, not a true story. Sly Soprano 04:51, 13 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]

---

This is not accurate: "The first and only Disney animated film to be based on fact."

Aside from whether it is or not the first and only Disney animated film based on "facts", the story about a romance between a Pocahontas woman and John Smith is simply impossible. By the time the unreliable John Smith claims Pocahontas saved his life she was about 11 years old (1607). Smith left Virginia never to return again two years later (1609) when Pocahontas was around 13 years old.

• "Based on" does not imply "completely rooted in." The basic story, minus romance, is true. Chill. Sly Soprano 04:51, 13 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]

• • Is it? I'd say the motivations of the Europeans are false as well. I've lived in Virginia all my life. I'm a native myself, although of an Iriquoi based tribe and not an Algonquian based tribe as the Powhatans were. We learned all about Pocahontas in the reservation's school and when my mother moved out of the reservation, the social studies teacher celebrated my coming to the school by talking about Pocahontas in class. Although I don't see why, wrong family of tribes, but anyway. I have never once read or heard anything about gold diggers in regards to John Smith's expedition. Sure, Europeans were always on the look out for gold, but this expedition was NOT a bunch of gold diggers.

I wish Disney would re-make this movie, and show the truth, not the lies they incorporated in this movie. Once they do this, then we can criticize their poor choice in movies. --66.218.17.240 03:29, 28 October 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Ive got a Question. Isn't the Anastasia Disney movie based on the story of the Grand Duchess Anastasia Romanov / Anna Anderson (Exept with alot of lies mixed in)? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.232.239.18 (talk) 22:02, 11 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Anastasia wasn't made by Disney. -- Annie D (talk) 01:05, 12 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Actually, Billy Zane voiced Rolfe in the second film. Christian Bale was not a voice actor in that film. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 64.73.66.34 (talk) 12:51, 20 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Is someone going to explain the plot of the movie or not? --User:Angie Y.

I think we should mention the fact that when Pocahontas "saved" John Smith from her father, it was really part of a complex initiation ceremony and that John Smith wasn't ever really in any danger. Just a suggestion. --LatinaEinstein 01:24, 19 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]

There are worse factual errors in the movie. The biggest one being that the movie depicts Pocahontas as being a young adult by the time the Whites (and their Bubonic-plagued rats) arrive in North America. However, in reality, she was still a child then... I wish my whole family would stop insisting I am a descendant of hers... my whole family being Native American. However, that asshat Bush cannot be a descendant. He is white for god sakes! SilentWind 16:22, 20 October 2006 (UTC)SilentWind[reply]

Pocohontas married Englishman John Rolfe, and they had many notable descendants, most of whom are considered white. I don't know about Bush, but woodrow Wilson was definately one of her descendants. See Pocahontas#Descendants. 75.129.161.183 10:49, 31 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Fact: The real John Smith raped the real Pocahantas. Citation: http://www.nytimes.com/1995/07/12/nyregion/coming-to-classrooms-the-real-pocahontas-story.html?pagewanted=1

I read the article and was surprised to see no section on "Criticism of Pocahantas" or "Racist themes in Pocahantas". Citations: http://web.mit.edu/activities/thistle/v9/9.09/8pocahontas.html would be a good place to start. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.247.133.72 (talk) 22:10, 27 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]

– I agree with the unsigned comment above, there needs to be a section on this. There has been significant public and academic criticism of Pocahontas, both at the time of the movie's release and in subsequent years. tanzy 12:49, 23 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]

@SilentWind- pocahontas had a son with john rolfe. This child, being part native American and part caucasian, went on to have child with a white woman. This led to a long line of white descendents in England and America. As this was Pocahontas' only son it means that- shock shock horror horror- all of the direct descendents of pocahontas are WHITE. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 94.171.242.52 (talk) 17:14, 16 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]

In regards to LatinaEinstein's comment. If we note that when John Smith was "saved" it was actually a ceremony. We must also note he did not write of this incident with Pocahontas until 17 years after it happened. Even after he had written of his stay with the Powhatan on several occasions without mentioning this event. To this end, it is unsure whether it was a ceremony or whether it happened at all. I think both situations should be made note of. (Papabrow (talk) 15:04, 13 April 2010 (UTC))[reply]

Contrary to the article, there ARE actually waterfalls in Virginia. I've seen dozens with my own eyes. The real problem is that there are simply none that large, or large enough to really be named at all. Of all the waterfalls I've seen while treking about in the wilderness never reach higher than 10feet in height, and they're usually just creeks, not rivers. So the waterflow isn't enough to do more than babble and trickle. The only waterfall I've seen that had any force to it was about 8 feet tall, and 5 feet wide. It was a part of a very rocky and cliffy rapids area of one particular river. This one waterfall was in an area that we call "Devil's Kitchen" because of all the whirlpools. To getinto the river that makes that one waterfall, the only one in Virginia that i myself have seen that comes off a river and not a creek or brook, you must drop down about 30 feet of sheer cliff face. It's certainly not the safest place in the world to be singing and dancing. Especially concidering the turbulance in the area.—Preceding unsigned comment added by [[User:{{{1}}}|{{{1}}}]] ([[User talk:{{{1}}}|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/{{{1}}}|contribs]])

I agree with you. I myself have done a lot of hiking around that area of Virginia. There were indeed a lot of whirpools, rocky areas, rapids and cliffs that looked very dangerous. For some odd reason the mere thought of whirlpools scares me O_o maybe because one nearly drowned me when I was a child...... Back on topic. The only waterfall I saw that had any force whatsoever was about the size of the on you described, but it had very steep (almost sheer) banks that went down quite a few feet so I couldn't get anywhere near it. There were some very sharp looking rocks at the bottom of it, and the water was very shallow, so if you were to go over the waterfall you would most certainly die. Downstream from that waterfall the water gets very deep and turbulent. Yes, certainly not a safe place to be playing around in a canoe made from a tree trunk! SilentWind 20:48, 22 October 2006 (UTC)[reply]

there are no waterfalls in tidewater virginia, its below the fall line. waterfalls do exist above the fall line in virginia but that not where this takes place. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.186.77.164 (talk) 02:33, 8 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]

I will never forgive Disney for this. The first person to die, on-screen, in a Disney movie, and it's a Native American. I was very furious about that the first time I watched the movie. -SilentWind 21:48, 23 October 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I also changed places where the word "Indian" was used to "Native". People, please don't use the word "Indian".... unless it's referring to people who are actually from India the country.-SilentWind 21:53, 23 October 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I disagree with this sentiment. There's nothing wrong with referring to Native Americans as Indians. Implying that there is is just politically correct bullshit creeping into this encyclopedia. I say either use is fine, as would the use of the word Aborigional, or American Aborigional. I may be mistaken, and your concern for clarity, and not political correctness. In that case, using the more specific 'American Indian' clears up any ambiguity. 75.129.161.183 10:53, 31 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I don't believe it's accurate to refer to them as "English settlers" when Ben is blatantly Scottish. Also, by this time King James I had united Scotland and England (as much as Ratcliffe refers to only England).

England and Scotland were unified at this point under one crown, but were still technically seperate nations until the Acts of Union 1707. This brings up a historical innacuracy in this film's sequal, where a British flag is used on the ship when it should have been an English flag. 75.129.161.183 10:56, 31 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Another criticism of the movie was it portrayed the Native Americans to be just as if not more prejudicial than the Europeans

I don't think this statement (which is grammatical incorrect anyway) is accurate. I'm not saying the film didn't portray the Native Americans are being prejudicial, but it certainly portrayed the Europeans as being the more prejudicial. If you'll notice, in the "Savages" song, when the lines are repeated by the natives they are toned down. For example, Ratcliffe's "they're not like you and me, which means they must be evil" is changed to "they're different from us, which means they can't be trusted" when spoken by Powhatan. Also, the film clearly depicts Ratcliffe as being the villain and the main source of all the bigotry. 67.171.163.212 02:08, 13 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

the John Smith character wikilink links to the actual John Smith, whilst Pocahontas' links to her character, and to add to that, he (the character) doesn't have an article... so should we keep the link or what? (I just check some of the other links, and it's the same for Chief Powhatan and Governor Ratcliffe) Abcdemily 04:45, 5 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I say remove the links. If someone creates articles for those characters, then they can be added back. -- Annie D 05:11, 5 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

In the trivia section there is this sentence: "Pocahontas is also the first female protagonist in an animated film by Disney." I'm not disputing this, but I just need clarification. Are Cinderella and Snow White considered protagonists or not? -- Annie D 00:42, 6 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I think that Cinderella and Snow White could be considered the protagonists because the protagonist is the main character of the story, regardless of whether that character is good or evil. So Pocahontas would not be the first female protagonist.Blackcat52 15:33, 7 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Might she be the first female protagonist of color? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 171.66.89.12 (talk) 21:08, 5 April 2010 (UTC)[reply]

I just reverted an edit by User:80.73.209.6 who expanded the plot section. The text added was useful, but the plot section has to be kept as simple as possible. Annie D 00:14, 12 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Please don't remove the trivia tag. (See: WP:TRIV.) Also, Mulan is more legend than fact. Thanks! -- Annie D 00:07, 19 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

The article states, that some people think Pocahontas looks more like "black model Naomi Campbell" than as a native American. But actually, Naomi Campbell isn't just black. Doesn't she have Chinese origins? And the East Asians are rather closely related to the Native Americans.

Naomi Campbell does have Chinese origans. And yes East Asians might be Related to Native Americans. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.232.239.18 (talk) 21:55, 11 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

There were complaints at the time, as character designers were accused of basing Pocahontas on three models- none of which were native american. Native American spokesmen complained that whilst elder male characters looked like Powhatans, Pocahontas lacked the facial features of an Indiginous American girl. They complained that in doing this, disney were implying that there was no beauty to be found in the faces of Native American girls. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 94.171.242.52 (talk) 17:31, 16 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]

So far, this was the only Disney movie based on a nonfictional character. 66.191.115.61 21:02, 7 September 2007 (UTC)Cbsteffen[reply]

Actually, whether or not Hua Mulan was a real person is still up for debate, so Mulan could technically be considered to be based on a historical figure. 70.121.201.71 (talk) 20:00, 2 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Image:Pocahontasposter.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.

If there is other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images uploaded after 4 May, 2006, and lacking such an explanation will be deleted one week after they have been uploaded, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.

BetacommandBot (talk) 18:57, 5 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Image:Pocahontasposter.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.

If there is other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images uploaded after 4 May, 2006, and lacking such an explanation will be deleted one week after they have been uploaded, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.

BetacommandBot (talk) 06:34, 6 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Image:Pocahontasposter.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.

If there is other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images lacking such an explanation can be deleted one week after being tagged, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.

BetacommandBot (talk) 07:02, 19 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Just wondering, has there ever been a mention of the similarities to those two works from a reliable source? The Lion King 2 article mentions it being based on R&J, but Pocahontas has even more similarities. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.90.253.52 (talk) 21:23, 12 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

The reasoning behind this is that Lion King's allusion is most likely intentional. The original Lion King based its story line on Hamlet and Macbeth, so to continue the reference to Shakespearean plays Lion King 2 would have put in allusions to other Shakespearean plays, in this case Romeo and Juliet. Pocahontas might seem similar, but this is more likely circumstantial as opposed to any real intent on the part of the studio. As a side note it is hard to come up with a concrete and non-arbitrary method of judging the similarities. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 171.66.89.12 (talk) 21:01, 5 April 2010 (UTC)[reply]

How could it have won Best Animated Theatrical Feature when that Oscar was not in use until 2001? 76.126.15.78 (talk) 16:30, 4 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

{{editsemiprotected}} Could someone please change "In 2005, a 10th Anniversary 2-disc Special Edition DVD set was released, which featured a new extended cut of the film and numerous bonus features." to "In 2005, a 10th Anniversary 2-disc Special Edition DVD set was released, which featured a new extended cut of the film (adding two performances of "If I Never Knew You") and numerous bonus features." 99.183.164.91 (talk) 05:30, 17 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]

 Done fahadsadah (talk,contribs) 08:27, 17 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I wanted to edit. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Asperchu (talk • contribs) 14:37, 13 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Right, i really can't see the point in everybody making such a huge fuss of a disney cartoon film that was quite frankly made for CHILDREN. I assume that all of us here are mature adults so I don't understand why everybody is picking out every tiny little fault in this film.... I'd like to point out that a lot of time and effort was put into the making of this film, and surely the acheivment of actually creating such a high quality enjoyable film should be celebrated and not torn to shreds. So what, there are a few innacuracies; it's a film for kids and their families to enjoy! I remember watching this film when i was younger and enjoying it thouroughly! The music is great and I would still happily sit and watch this film over and over again. Stop being so negative and maybe start disscussing the positive things about this film. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 78.149.75.170 (talk) 10:52, 3 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]

This is not a forum. BOVINEBOY2008 11:05, 3 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]

The point: the film distorts history. Children (and some adults) may not be able to view it as "entertainment" and may incorporate parts of it into their understanding of of Native Americans and European colonization. No, it's not as bad as lots of older pop culture. Yes, it can still do damage. Yes, we should make sure an encyclopedia article is as accurate as possible. Disney can do their own marketing of its merits, and you are free to watch it and enjoy it. But this isn't a casual article or review of the film - it must aspire to a higher standard. 98.243.50.78 (talk) 02:51, 18 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Ian McKellan so did not voice Powhatan. IT was Russell Means. Could someone go ahead and change that please? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Dalecat (talk • contribs) 19:35, 10 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Change Kocoum's voice actor's name from "Kevin Smith" to "James Apaumut Fall" Change Powhatan's voice actor's name from "Ian McKellen" to "Russel Means"

As these are the correct actors and not the ones presently in the article (I don't want to think that Gandalf is Chief Powhatam)

142.66.72.97 (talk) 20:36, 14 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

I've made the corrections. Thanks! Erik (talk | contribs) 21:03, 14 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

{{edit semi-protected}}

1. Virginia Company- English Settlers
2. Virginia Company (Reprise)- John Smith, Thomas, & Settlers
3. Steady as the Beating Drum (Main Title)- Native Americans
4. Steady as the Beating Drum (Reprise)- Powhatan
5. Just Around the Riverbend- Pocahontas
6. Listen With Your Heart (Pt 1)- Grandmother Willow
7. Mine, Mine, Mine- Ratcliffe, John Smith, & Settlers
8. Listen With Your Heart (Pt 2)- Grandmother Willow
9. [Colors of the Wind]- Pocahontas
10. Savages (Pt 1)- Ratcliffe, Powhatan, Kekata, & Chorus
11. Savages (Pt 2)- Ratcliffe, Powhatan, Pocahantas, & Chorus

Imjerome10 (talk) 16:53, 28 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

 Not done Please be specific about what you want done. BOVINEBOY2008 17:01, 28 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]