Talk:Postpartum period: Difference between revisions

It has been suggested that Postpartum physiological changes be merged into this page. Proposed since March 2018.

These two articles currently address different aspects of the same topic. It would be better to have one article that covers all aspects of the topic. Clayoquot (talk | contribs) 04:04, 20 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]

I see that that article begins rather strangely:

The postpartum physiological changes are those expected changes that occur during the immediate postpartum and is the beginning of the return of pre-pregnancy physiology and breastfeeding. This stage lasts at least two hours after birth. Most of the time these changes are normal and can be managed with medication and comfort measures.

This is a good example of problematic editing for several reasons. I agree that it should be worked into this article, which appears to start off much better. Gandydancer (talk) 04:15, 20 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Support merge per nom. The physiological changes are particularly notable and may at some point warrant a separate article, but at this point the merger is appropriate. — soupvector (talk) 11:39, 20 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose. The articles could all do with improvement, particularly in writing style, but it seems logical that Postpartum period includes a relatively brief overview, with pointers to more detailed articles about Prenatal and perinatal psychology, Postpartum physiological changes, and cultural practices such as Postpartum confinement and Lying-in (a pair that could do with a merge IMHO). One of the improvements I can see needed is a clearer definition of what length of time "postpartum" covers. Carbon Caryatid (talk) 11:34, 21 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]

• Comment The problem is, the other article is filled with inaccurate information. I had hoped to work on it but the refs seem to be mostly from a couple of books...which I don't have. And that's not all - looking at this one I see right off the bat an egregious copy vio. The source:

Immediately after delivery, a large amount of red blood flows from the uterus until the contraction phase occurs. Thereafter, the volume of vaginal discharge (lochia) rapidly decreases. The duration of this discharge, known as lochia rubra, is variable. The red discharge progressively changes to brownish red, with a more watery consistency (lochia serosa). Over a period of weeks, the discharge continues to decrease in amount and color and eventually changes to yellow (lochia alba). [1] The period of time the lochia can last varies, although it averages approximately 5 weeks. [2]

And this article reads:

Immediately after delivery, a large amount of red blood flows from the uterus until the contraction phase occurs. Thereafter, the volume of lochia (postpartum vaginal discharge, containing blood, mucus, and uterine tissue) rapidly decreases. The duration of this discharge, known as lochia rubra, is variable. The red discharge progressively changes to brownish red, with a more watery consistency (lochia serosa). Over a period of weeks, the discharge continues to decrease in amount and color and eventually changes to yellow (lochia alba). The period of time the lochia can last varies, although it averages approximately 5 weeks.

I'm less concerned about the copy vio than the numerous mistakes that I find. For example: About 2 to 3 days (72 to 96 hours) before the birth the breasts begin to produce the fore milk or colostrum. This sometimes described as "the milk coming in". In about three days to five days the normal and expected milk forms. Engorgement of the breast is a normal development at this time. The breast changes and can become red. Tenderness can develop. Engorgement is a result of the congestion in the breast lymphatic system, veins and the filling with milk.[5] This really does need to be fixed ASAP. I'll delete the worst of it, the "engorgement is normal" part. Gandydancer (talk) 07:19, 23 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]

• More. (Sorry, I don't want to mess up the formatting.) I've come across more articles that deal with aspects of "life after birth": Sex after pregnancy, Psychiatric disorders of childbirth (i.e. Postpartum depression, Postpartum psychosis). There may well be others. I very much see Postpartum period as a place to summarise and point to more detailed articles, and so oppose the proposed merger. Carbon Caryatid (talk) 10:47, 23 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]

No "mess up" at all. Interesting info and I had no idea! "Brainstorming" is the first step in problem solving and looking at these other related articles is helpful. I have started to try to improve this article but the copy vio and other problems have very much disheartened me. At any rate, no matter what we do with the other article, I'd like to keep some/most/all/a few...?, of the psychological changes in this article...I think? Gandydancer (talk) 16:40, 23 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]

• Oppose As I begin to work on this article I can see CC's point and now feel that it's a good split. Contrary to my first thoughts, it now seems best to me to leave most part of the immediate and early postpartum medical stuff, which actually boils down to the nurse or midwife watching very closely for signs of life-threatening hemorrhage, for the other article. Though the other article says it is about the first two hours...which is not nearly enough time, IMO... though after saying that it goes on to discuss things in the following days and weeks. This is what happens when quantity of articles is more important that quality, as discussed here Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents#Barbara (WVS)'s editing of medical and anatomy articles. Gandydancer (talk) 13:53, 24 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]

I take it it's OK to now remove the merge banner? Carbon Caryatid (talk) 17:22, 17 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Sure. I had proposed the merge as a quick way to turn a poorly-written article, Postpartum physiological changes, into a redirect. But if someone is willing to improve it instead, that would be even better. Cheers, Clayoquot (talk | contribs) 17:43, 17 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]

I'll remove the merge banner. If you want improvements to the other article, I suggest you add banners to it, identifying what needs work. I've been working on Postpartum confinement and would appreciate your thoughts there, if you wish. Carbon Caryatid (talk) 20:07, 17 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]