Talk:Nisio Isin: Difference between revisions

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This article was nominated for deletion on December 4, 2006. The result of the discussion was keep.

While Ishin Nishio is the standard romanization for his name, it is consistently given as NisiOisin on the copyright page at the back of his books, and should be spelled accordingly. 67.183.123.111 17:52, 29 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

While this is true, it is given in the Summary section that NisiOisin (well, Nisio Isin) is his pen name. Articles regarding Japanese people should use the Wikipedia standard romanization (Hepburn) in the article title, if I recall. You can change the section regarding his Pen Name to read NisiOisin but the rest of the article should stay the way it is. Nique1287 18:00, 29 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Should his books be translated, they would be required to match the spelling to the copyright page. Which is actually Nisio Isin, now that I look at it. 67.183.123.111 09:53, 4 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

The section on style appears to be a direct translation of the Japanese language entry. I added at least one citation for it, since someone tagged it... Doceirias 03:51, 18 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I've gone ahead and asked that this page be moved. Since his name was specifically designed to be a palindrome in English, and appears as Nisio Isin on the copyright page at the back of all his novels, is seems absurd to force the name to conform to irrelevant formatting conventions. Doceirias 02:05, 25 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I disagree entirely. Just because he uses the spelling of his name in Japanese order as a palindrome, with non-Hepburn romanization, does not justify breaking Wikipedia's policy on Japanese naming. Since his name is not a pseudonym on the books and such, just a non-standard romanization, the article should remain Ishin Nishio, with the notes (multiple) currently contained within the article about his use of Nisio Isin in his writing. You can, and should, create as many single-redirects as required for the page, including Nisio Isin and Isin Nisio, but the page itself should still conform to Wikipedia's policy on the matter. Nique1287 02:37, 25 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I don't follow your arguement at all. What does "his name is not a pseudonym on the books" mean? It seems sort of arrogant to me to impose a policy over the wishes of the author, and the legal spelling that the publishers would require for any future translations of his books. I have copies of his books in Japanese, and can try to find a scanner to prove that this is the name his works are copyrighted under, if that will help... — Preceding unsigned comment added by Doceirias (talk • contribs)

His name is not a false name or an assumed name, it's simply a non-standard romanization. As such, it should not be considered a pseudonym, which would be the only reason to make the page's title Nisio Isin as opposed to Ishin Nishio, as per Wikipedia's policy on Japanese pseudonyms. Since it is not a pseudonym, the page's title should remain Ishin Nishio, and redirects should be made, if they are not already in place, to direct viewers to that title. I'm sorry if I wasn't clear enough about that in the first place. ^^; Nique1287 02:47, 25 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

It isn't the name he was born with, though. It's a pen name, and he's given interviews to that effect. This is from the Nisio Isin Chronicle guide book, but he has admitted choosing his name because he heard the question author's are most often asked is how they devised their pen name, and he wanted to pretend he didn't know it was a palindrome. But then nobody has ever asked, and he was very disappointed. Doceirias 02:56, 25 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

It's still just a romanization, and it's still just a non-standard romanization at that. Unless you're implying that even the kanji are not his birth name, which is not stated in the article at all (and I would assume that it would have been added by now, by someone), the name Nisio Isin is just a non-standard romanization, and thus not a true pseudonym. Since there's a statement to this effect ("also known under his kunreishiki pen name Nisio Isin") in the very first sentence of the article, and because of (again) Wikipedia's policy on the naming of modern figures, I must oppose the move in question, in favour of redirects. Nique1287 03:02, 25 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

The kanji are a pen name! The entire name is made up! Isin spelled with those kanji (the same kanji as the revolutionary group the Ishin-shi-shi) is not a standard name at all. His real name is unknown, but when I say pen name, I mean the entire thing. Doceirias 03:08, 25 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Again, the article does not state that the kanji are assumed AT ALL. You can check for yourself, quite easily, there are only two sections that talk about his life and self anyway, the intro and the Style section. The article only states that his pen name is Nisio Isin, and it gives the kanji as his birth name with NO indication that they were assumed. Unless you have a source that states that even the kanji are assumed, I still have to oppose the move. EVEN if you give a source that states it, I have to oppose the move, per policies stated above. If I were to create novels, music, or visual art under, say, the name モ二ック as opposed to Monique, and I then became famous enough to warrant my own Wikipedia page, would you then propose that, instead of using the name's standard spelling, the article be titled Monikku? The same goes for romanization of kanji. Even if the kanji are a pseudonym, it's the kanji that are the pseudonym, and the romanization remains simply non-standard. Nique1287 03:18, 25 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Check the Japanese page, where it clearly states: "西尾維新というペンネーム" -- His penname, Nisio Isin. I started this discussion over on the naming policy talk page, but the discussion died out quickly. I want to do this properly, get that policy changed if it needs to be. I don't see that your example really relates to this one, but I have a couple that work the other way. Otsu-ichi -- Also a penname (kanji and spelling) but kept in the Japanese order with a hypen because that's what's on the copyright page, and that's how the English edition of Calling You was required to keep it. Likewise Sigusawa Keiichi (which I moved today incorrectly, will have to move all the way to Sigsawa soon) is a penname (kanji too) designed to resemble Sig Sauer, and the English edition of his book spells his name Keiichi Sigsawa. I mean, if the Wikipedia policy says we have to contradict the spelling of the name their books are published under in order to standardise, then the Wikipedia policy needs to be changed. This isn't about working under a katakana spelling, but it would be like changing, um...Steven to Stephen, or Sean to Shawn. Can't think of any real examples of celebrities with strange spellings of normal names, but do you get my point? Even if this were his real name, if the man himself has his name as Nisio Isin legally on the books, requiring that it be spelled that way on all editions of his books forever, then why would we want to contradict that? We know how to spell his name better than he does? Better than the legal copyright? Doceirias 03:34, 25 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]