Initiated by Anynobody(?) at 22:01, 12 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Case affected

Scientology arbitration case (t) (ev / t) (w / t) (pd / t)

Clauses to which an amendment is requested

1. Wikipedia:ARBSCI#Anynobody and Wikipedia:ARBSCI#Anynobody topic-banned and restricted

List of users affected by or involved in this amendment

• Anyeverybody (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) (initiator)
  • (On other wikis and here until I created a super complicated password which I made my browser memorize, and subsequently forget when I forgot to migrate my passwords before moving to a new hard drive I edited as Anynobody (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)) Anynobody(?) 02:34, 17 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]

• I'd like to resume editing Scientology related articles (most interested in Hubbard's military service but am also interested in unrestricetd editing again). The board found that I was POV pushing in 2007 when #1 I uploaded primary source documents regarding L. Ron Hubbard's service in the Navy during WW II and #2 needlessly harassed another editor.

• Regarding #1: The documents were official USN records which showed Hubbard had misrepresented his naval career during the conflict and claimed awards he did not receive. Since the source is verifiable, reliable, and neutral (the USN has no agenda) I felt the records deserved inclusion. (Hubbard claimed to be a naval hero, in order to be truly NPOV the navy's side of things should be represented too.)

• Regarding #2: I'm not looking to have this changed, but I feel compelled to respond given the way the finding was written. I only mention it here because anyone looking into my part of this case will certainly notice the board's finding and might wonder about my side of the story. In my opinion the other editor was engaged more in defending his faith as a Scientologist than editing according to the rules. In a nutshell I participated in numerous discussions on WP:ANI and attempted to set up a WP:RFC/U on his behavior which was stopped by an involved administrator who said my attempts to go through with it despite their disagreement (I wanted outside comments from non-involved people) were harassment. The arbcom agreed and instructed me to stay away from him after the 2007 case Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration/COFS which I thought I had abided by.

• Summary: When I was topic banned in 2009 I had become accustomed to citing almost every post I made to a Scientology article if I wanted it to actually stay in. The arbcom cited evidence from 2007, when I first started editing as being the reason for the ban. As long as I ensure that any edits I make to Hubbard's or any other Scientology article are cited by an acceptable source, and include all relevant information from them then NPOV will be maintained. So I'm asking the arbcom to let me edit those topics again.

I'm really not into edit warring and already practice a version of 1RR: If I add something sans a source which gets removed, I won't try restoring it until a good source can be found (since I don't edit as much as I used to this usually means a day or so.) I'm also not a fan of reverting edits without discussion. If I had a good source to begin with and my edit is removed without a logical reason I first add a section to the talk page explaining why my edit was valid regarding relevant policies/guidelines and then revert the article (usually trying different verbiage) noting to check talk page in the edit summary. Most people will then proceed to a discussion on the talk page where either I am convinced to remove the edit or the other editor is persuaded my original edit was ok.

• • To sum up: I totally believe 3rr is unnecessary in dealing with good faith editors, but sometimes due to confusion one revert may be constructive. Anynobody(?) 19:14, 14 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Actually the docs I uploaded, were for the most part* discussed in this secondary source about Hubbard's service and his claims regarding it called Ron the War Hero. For example most of the documents I uploaded come from this page on the site about Hubbard's claimed sub kills. *An exception would be the ASW-1 form I uploaded, which was not found on the site. That was uploaded in case anyone reading Admiral Fletcher's report wondered what he meant by saying PC-815's report was not in accordance with ASW-1.

• • The graphics were simply meant to illustrate topics discussed, for example the text referred to two separate DD-214 forms listing two different sets of awards and commendations. We usually list these in articles about military personnel, for example Richard Stephen Ritchie#Awards and decorations. Thanks to Hubbard there can't be only one list, since he claimed to have earned these awards we have to mention that (even the one's which he couldn't have gotten or didn't exist.)

• • • To sum up: None of this is original research because it came from a secondary source and I'm not saying Hubbard was liar. In fact I don't remember stating anywhere in an article that Hubbard was an outright liar in those words, nor did I imply he was somehow mistaken or trying to come up with other explanations why his war claims aren't backed up by any reliable sources. Though I can't argue the existence of so many contradictions does give one that impression, but remember this isn't my original research, it comes from a secondary source backed by primary documents. Anynobody(?) 20:50, 19 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]

I'm not saying I was perfect, I certainly wouldn't add a reference like Admiral Weneker's report about Japanese subs not commerce raiding off the US coast as a response to Scientology claims that the Japanese were in the area often.

• Per CHL... CHL probably didn't realize when he wrote his reply that the primary docs he points to came from a secondary source Wikipedia was using before I even started editing: Version of this page, as edited by BTfromLA (talk | contribs) at 04:54, 21 November 2006 back when Hubbard's military career was a subsection of his article.
  Further, Wikipediatrix carried it over when she created the article specifically about his career: Version as edited by Wikipediatrix (talk | contribs) at 15:10, 25 May 2007.
  I totally understand, given the amount of work you do as an arbcom member and the usual attitude of people asking for editing rights who don't seem to think they've done anything wrong must be frustrating. Please understand I can't find anywhere where it says we can't upload primary documents referred to by (and here actually in) a secondary source being used as a reference.

• I'd also like to see considerably more activity in other areas before revisiting this. I spend a majority of my time supporting the project with graphics used on wikis all over the world, are you saying I should put more time into editing articles rather than illustrating them? Anynobody(?) 02:42, 22 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Fellow Wikipedians I started editing here in January 2007 and during the few months made some mistakes based on misunderstanding our rules. (Let's call them the early 2007 errors) By the time I was involved in the first Scientology case in July 2007 I thought I had done a good job of editing within policy and put the early 2007 errors behind me. The arbcom didn't seem concerned I was still making the same editing errors: Issue addressed was unrelated to editing articles. (It's also relevant to mention I completely refrained from contacting the other editor as mandated by the arbcom in that case.) By mid 2008 I had certainly come to understand how WP:RS, WP:V, WP:NPOV, WP:OR, and WP:CITE work: Diff I think that's rational, bearing in mind that some use of CoS sources is necessary only to report their major assertions about him discussed in secondary sources. However CoS information which has not been in a relevant secondary source is probably unacceptable. (I should mention that I know the same standard applies to any source.)

In May 2009, citing my early 2007 errors, the arbcom topic banned me from editing Scientology topics. If the concern is that I'll go back to making the same early 2007 errors, creating WP:SYNTH, and getting involved with edit disputes I promise that is definitely not the case because I wasn't doing those things in 2009 when I was banned. (This is why I may come off as arrogant or unrepentant here, being punished for mistakes made two years earlier that have not been repeated since, is incredibly frustrating!) Anynobody(?) 00:58, 26 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]

{Other editors are free to comment on this amendment as necessary. Comments here should be directed only at the above proposed amendment.}

Statements here may address all the amendments, but individual statements under each proposed amendment are preferred. If there is only one proposed amendment, then no statements should be added here.

This section is for administrative notes by the clerks (including clerk recusals).

• Was not active on this case, and sufficient numbers of those active on this case are still on the Committee, so leaving it to them to review this (i.e. staying inactive on this one, and noting it here for the purposes of any motions that might be proposed). Carcharoth (talk) 13:05, 13 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]
• Anyeverybody, would you be willing to also abide by a 1RR on Scientology-related topics? — Coren ^(talk) 14:54, 13 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]
• You seem to be defending editing which was almost textbook definition OR, particularly WP:SYN (Hubbard said this, but I have primary sources and user-created graphics to advance the position he was a liar). I'm reluctant to lift the topic ban for this reason. Cool Hand Luke 15:36, 19 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]
• Per CHL. I'd also like to see considerably more activity in other areas before revisiting this.  Roger Davies ^talk 17:23, 21 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]
• Per those above. SirFozzie (talk) 23:55, 24 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]