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Not for mountain of Montserrat, but for VIRGIN OF MONTSERRAT. <span style="font-size: smaller;" class="autosigned">— Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/213.60.214.185|213.60.214.185]] ([[User talk:213.60.214.185|talk]]) 14:25, 25 November 2011 (UTC)</span><!-- Template:Unsigned IP --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->
==Rename==
As this island is named after the mountain in Spain, I propose that according to [[Wikipedia:Naming conventions]] and [[Wikipedia:Disambiguation#Topic_page_naming]], this article should be retitled [[Montserrat (island)]], and the [[Montserrat (mountain)]] article be moved here. Any objections? --[[User:DropDeadGorgias|DropDeadGorgias]] [[User_talk:DropDeadGorgias|(talk)]] 15:39, July 25, 2005 (UTC)
Spelling of Montserrat- words that also end with similar spelling
aristocrat
autocrat
baccarat
bureaucrat
carat
democrat
drat
firebrat
frat
gerontocrat
grat
jurat
karat
korat
meritocrat
mobocrat
monocrat
muskrat
ochlocrat
plutocrat
prat
quadrat
sprat
superbureaucrat
technocrat
thalassocrat
theocrat
ziggurat
zikkurat
zikurat
YES- dorrettydor96
Yes- Johngoryanderson5660 <small>—Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/90.192.227.204|90.192.227.204]] ([[User talk:90.192.227.204|talk]]) 17:13, 11 June 2008 (UTC)</small><!-- Template:UnsignedIP --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->
===Poll===
''As there is some disagreement, I am reformatting this as a poll and listing it at [[Wikipedia:Current polls]].''
Summary: Montserrat was originally a mountain in Spain, then an island nation in the Carribean was named after the mountain. However, it can be argued that the island nation is a more "searchable" topic than the mountain.
Please sign your name using three tildes (<nowiki>~~~</nowiki>) under the position you support, possibly adding a brief comment. If you are happy with more than one possibility, you may wish to sign your names to more than one place. Extended commentary should be placed below, in the section marked "Discussion".
* '''Keep current articles named as they are'''
*# A search for "Montserrat" I suspect is more likely to be about the island of. No? [[User:CaribDigita|CaribDigita]] 19:13, 25 July 2005 (UTC)
*# mountain can have a ''see also'' sentence at the top of article page -- [[User:Max rspct|max rspct]] 19:36, 25 July 2005 (UTC)
*# Link to a dab page from Montserrat (mountain), but make Montserrat (island) the default page. [[User:Nightstallion|Nightstallion]] 19:55, 25 July 2005 (UTC)
*#'''Strong Disagree''' - the country of Montserrat is the most common usage of the name in English. First usage does not trump dominant usage. I am unaware of ''any'' country which does not get first claim to that country's name. [[User:Guettarda|Guettarda]] 20:06, 25 July 2005 (UTC)
::: see [[Georgia (country)|Georgia]] for one. Also [[Java (island)|Java]] is a much bigger island that's disambiguated. [[User:Peking Duck|Peking Duck]] 20:10, 7 August 2005 (UTC)
::::That's because of a partially US-centric bias in Wikipedia, I'd say. If anyone heard "Georgia" in Europe, I'm fairly sure the majority of people would first think of the sovereign state, then the part of the US. As for Java... Well, the language is in my opinion far more important than some minor Spanish mountain, isn't it? [[User:Nightstallion|—]] [[Image:Flag of Austria.svg|15px]] [[User:Nightstallion|ナイトスタリオン]] <sub>[[User_talk:Nightstallion|ㇳ–ㇰ]]</sub> [[Special:Watchlist|—]] 09:27, 8 August 2005 (UTC)
*# Montserrat the island is far more common than the mountain. I think it could either be treated like [[Saint Croix]] or [[Boston]]. [[User:Gruepig|Gruepig]] 21:13, 25 July 2005 (UTC)
*# Agree with the above, keep where they are. [[User:Markussep|Markussep]] 12:02, 30 July 2005 (UTC)
* '''Move current article to [[Montserrat (island)]], move article currently at [[Montserrat (mountain)]] to [[Montserrat]]'''
*# Actually, I now think that the island article should be [[Montserrat, West Indies]] (precedent at: [[Saint Thomas, United States Virgin Islands]]). [[User:DropDeadGorgias|DropDeadGorgias]] [[User_talk:DropDeadGorgias|(talk)]] 20:03, July 25, 2005 (UTC)
*# [[User:Gyrofrog|Gyrofrog ]] [[User_talk:Gyrofrog|(talk)]] 19:00, 25 July 2005 (UTC)
*# The way it is now is '''wrong''', and like ナイトスタリオン said, it's a US-centric bias, like 99% of the things in this Wikipedia (another example of this, is the article [[United States]]: it links to the [[United States of America]]; the official name of [[Mexico]] is also [[United States of Mexico]], so following the [[Wikipedia]]'s policy, [[United States]] should link to a [[Wikipedia:Disambiguation|disambiguation page]]. But what can you expect from a country whose name is ''United States of '''America'''''? Maybe they think they are the only ''united states'' that exist in the whole [[America|continent]]). The anglosaxons are not the center of the world. The name ''Montserrat'' means ''Jagged Mountain'' in [[Catalan language|Catalan]], and the island recieved this name because [[Cristopher Columbus|Cristòfol Colom]] was [[Catalan people|Catalan]]. [[Montserrat (mountain)|Montserrat]] is not a ''minor'' mountain: it is the spiritual center of [[Catalonia]], and treating it as a minor mountain and subordinating to such insignificant island, and more when the island owes its name to the Mountain, is an insult to the [[Catalan people|Catalans]]. In my opinion, all this discussion is pointless: '''Montserrat''' is a '''MOUNTAIN''', and the '''Island of Montserrat''' is an '''island of the Caribbean'''. No matters if the ignorance of the anglosaxons reaches the point to ignore the mountain and attribute the whole meaning of ''Montserrat'' to the island; this kind of behaviour is not new in such people, but the wikipedia must be kept safe and unbiased. [[User:Onofre Bouvila|Onofre Bouvila]] 23:32, 3 March 2007 (UTC)
=== Discussion ===
*Are you going to propose moving [[United Kingdom]] to [[United Kingdom, Europe]] too? [[User:Guettarda|Guettarda]] 20:08, 25 July 2005 (UTC)
** ''Moved this comment, please see directions for discussions under "Poll" or at [[Wikipedia:Surveys]].'' First of all, there's no need to get hostile or overreact; your comments and edit summary ''"reject first-world chauvanism"'' are extremely reactionary, when I am simply placing forward a proposal. A simple disagreement will be fine. Secondly, your example is not congruent to the matter at hand, not because of the country in question but because there is no need to disambiguate United Kingdom. ''If'' there was another encyclopedic topic named "United Kingdom" that ''preceded'' and was the ''geniture'' of the name of the country, then yes, I would definitely propose moving that article. However, as it stands, the example you give is clearly not analagous to the situation we have here. I just want to say, because you seem to be taking this personally, that this is not meant as an affront to the country, but I am simply trying to figure out the best name for this article based on policy. --[[User:DropDeadGorgias|DropDeadGorgias]] [[User_talk:DropDeadGorgias|(talk)]] 20:23, July 25, 2005 (UTC)
***You are putting forward a proposal that you would never put forward for a developed country. It isn't conscious bias, it's unconscious chauvanism. Policy is very clear - you use the most common name. Replacing a (relatively) well-known country with a (relatively) obscure mountain is contrary to the policy which you know well of using the most common name in English. It's not like you are a newbie - you've been an established presence here long before me. And look at [[United Kingdom (disambiguation)]] - apart from the [[United Kingdom of Great Britain]] etc., there's a Scadinavian entity several hundred years earlier. [[Boston]] redirects to Boston, Mass, not [[Boston, Lincolnshire]]. If you had started with any of the well-known examples, or if you were a newbie, I would see this as fair. But you are an old hand, and you chose to start with a small third world country. Quacks like a duck, as they say... [[User:Guettarda|Guettarda]] 20:42, 25 July 2005 (UTC)
****OK, there's a reason I put up a poll, because I wanted to know what people think. Just so you know, I put forth renaming proposals wherever I see a problem (for example [[Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Comics#Ultimates'_Naming]], and I proposed moving [[Main Page]] to [[Main page]], but it wasn't successful). It just so happens that I was looking for Montserrat (the mountain) today, and it seemed odd to me that it was the origin of the name, but was a disambig page. That's all. If everyone else agrees that the articles should stay I have no problem with it. You seem to be taking this really personally, so I'm going to leave this alone and let the poll decide it, but your accusations of "chauvinism" on my part are completely unjustified; it's really just rude. --[[User:DropDeadGorgias|DropDeadGorgias]] [[User_talk:DropDeadGorgias|(talk)]] 20:51, July 25, 2005 (UTC)
*****I'm sorry that you find my comments rude, but the simple fact is that you proposed replacing a third world country with a mountain. You spat in our faces. If you thought that the mountain was somehow the more common usage in English, you could have said so, maybe backed it up with some evidence...not proposed a page move. If you want to ask people what they think, you ask them what they think - but instead you went straight to a poll, which makes consensus impossible. I did not intend to imply that you were intentionally insulting - the insult was in the unthinking dismissal of us. Maybe chauvinism was the wrong word. Maybe it was just unconscious bias against the third world, or against the Caribbean. I was wrong to propose motivation. But it's still an insult, but what's ''far'' more disturbing is that you obviously don't have a clue why it was insulting. [[User:Guettarda|Guettarda]] 22:13, 25 July 2005 (UTC)
******Uhh, I asked if other people thought that a page should be moved, and you think i'm "spitting in your faces"? All I'm saying is, dude, chill the fuck out. I thought this was a discussion page, but apparently it's a [[soapbox]] for you to rant. You can go on imagining that everyone is slighting you in some unspeakable way, but the truth is, I found what I thought was a naming discrepancy, I wasn't sure, so I ''asked the community''. Stop trying to villify my motives for some cause you've just created out of nowhere. Peace. --[[User:DropDeadGorgias|DropDeadGorgias]] [[User_talk:DropDeadGorgias|(talk)]] 14:52, July 26, 2005 (UTC)
*******"Chill the fuck out" and "Peace". Nice juxtaposition - insulting obscenity followed by "peace", which makes it ''all better''. Obviously you think that a mountain in Spain is more important that a nation in the Caribbean, otherwise you would not have raised the issue. And yes, it's a slap in the face - ''you'' chose this page to tell us what you think of us. If you had seriously wanted clarification on an issue of naming convention you would have taken this to the village pump, or the naming conventions pages, where the input would have been from people who's "thing" is naming. Bringing it here looks sneaky. Since your response is not "no offense intended", it was "well, I will bring myself to accept community consensus" - which is saying nothing, since we are all bound by that. And now insults an obscenities. But ''I'm'' somehow the one treating this page as a soapbox. If you did not have an agenda you would not have reacted the way you did. I was not villifying your actions, you did that all by yourself. And here I was thinking you were a decent and well-intentioned member of the community. How stupid of me. [[User:Guettarda|Guettarda]] 15:44, 26 July 2005 (UTC)
:: The statement about "Saint Thomas, United States Virgin Islands" being a reason to replace 'Mountain' with 'Island' isn't exactly valid. Saint Thomas is a part of the USVI. So technically saying "Saint Thomas, United States Virgin islands". Is no different then saying: [[Miami, Florida]], [[Los Angeles, California]], [[Atlanta, Georgia]]. Many other countries are named after something else. And not to be comfrontational. But, I only came along and found the part about Montserrat "being named after a Mountain in Spain" but do we know that fact is true? Under that same logic wouldn't it just make more sense to rename Montserrat_(Mountain) to [[Montserrat, Spain]]? [[User:CaribDigita|CaribDigita]]
:: Actually it already appears someone has proposed to move "Montserrat (mountain)" instead to "[[Montserrat, Spain]]"? on [[Talk:Montserrat_(mountain)]], which I think-- would be under Wikipedia local naming conventions? [[User:CaribDigita|CaribDigita]]
*There are a lot of links to Montserrat. Undoing them seems like a lot of work. [[User:Josh Parris|Josh Parris]] [[User_talk:Josh Parris|✉]] 01:38, 26 July 2005 (UTC)
:: Judging by the passion shown for the island of Montserrat I imagine that this page has readers who know a lot about the history of the island of Montserrat. May I humbly request, therefore, any information that anyone may have on a certain James Mead, for a long time treasurer and later president or at least acting president of the island between 1950 and 1890 approximately (should be able to reedit this with more precise dates in a day or two)? Have fun with the naming debate! If you want an 'impartial' (which you could also read as 'ignorant') opinion I'd say that the name of a country has priority over that of a mountain. If I remember rightly Montserrat is in catalunya, which isn't a country either (yet). I imagine Montserrat the island is bigger than Montserrat the mountain. Perhaps you could judge it by how much ash each one produces: Montserrat the island wins again. Don't really understand why the mountain should take precedence over the island therefore.
=="forced" Migration & Volcanic Activities==
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