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==Welcome==
Hello, '''Someone another''', and [[Wikipedia:Welcome, newcomers|welcome]] to Wikipedia. Thank you for [[Special:Contributions/Someone another|your contributions]]. I hope you like the place and decide to stay. If you are stuck, and looking for help, please come to the '''[[Wikipedia:New contributors' help page|New contributors' help page]]''', where experienced Wikipedians can answer any queries you have! Or, you can just type '''<code>{{helpme}}</code>''' and your question on your user talk page, and someone will show up shortly to answer. Here are a few good links for newcomers:
*[[Wikipedia:Five pillars|The Five Pillars of Wikipedia]]
*[[Wikipedia:How to edit a page|How to edit a page]]
*[[Wikipedia:Tutorial|Editing tutorial]]
*[[Wikipedia:Picture tutorial|Picture tutorial]]
*[[Wikipedia:How to write a great article|How to write a great article]]
*[[Wikipedia:Naming conventions|Naming conventions]]
*[[Wikipedia:Manual of Style|Manual of Style]]
We hope you enjoy editing here and being a [[Wikipedia:Wikipedians|Wikipedian]]! By the way, you can sign your name on talk and vote pages using four tildes, like this: ~~~~. If you have any questions, see the [[Wikipedia:Help|help pages]], add a question to the [[Wikipedia:village pump|village pump]] or ask me on <!-- [[{{ns:3}}:{{{1}}}|my Talk page]] (broken) --> my talk page. Again, welcome! [[User:Sesshomaru|Lord Sesshomaru]] <small>([[User talk:Sesshomaru|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Sesshomaru|edits]])</small> 18:54, 13 October 2007 (UTC)
=='''[[:Deserted island]] → [[:Desert island]]'''==
Thanks for your comment. Can we possibly move your opinion to [[Deserted island]]? -- [[User:Kleinzach|Kleinzach]] 01:04, 19 October 2007 (UTC)
:A pleasure, and done.[[User:Someone another|Someone another]] 03:41, 19 October 2007 (UTC)
== Edit summary ==
Hi, I just noticed you added the sarcastic gamers AfD to the videogames list. Just as a request, could you make your edit summories when doing that a little clearer? I couldn't quite get what you did just from the edit summary. Thanks! [[User:Martijn Hoekstra|Martijn Hoekstra]] ([[User talk:Martijn Hoekstra|talk]]) 12:41, 22 November 2007 (UTC)
:Yes of course, sorry. I try hard not to edit without summaries, rattling through, but if they're not readable then of course it defeats the object. :/ [[User:Someone another|Someone another]] ([[User talk:Someone another|talk]]) 12:47, 22 November 2007 (UTC)
::Yeah, I make some pretty obscure edit summaries myself too at times. Sometimes I have to be reminded that what's readable for me, doesn't mean comprehensible for another. [[User:Martijn Hoekstra|Martijn Hoekstra]] ([[User talk:Martijn Hoekstra|talk]]) 13:00, 22 November 2007 (UTC)
== The video game barnstar ==
{| style="border: 1px solid {{{border|gray}}}; background-color: {{{color|#fdffe7}}};"
|rowspan="2" valign="top" | [[Image:BarnstarCVG.png|111px]]
|rowspan="2" |
|style="font-size: x-large; padding: 0; vertical-align: bottom; height: 1.1em;" | '''The [[Wikipedia:WikiProject Video games|VG]] Barnstar'''
|-
|style="vertical-align: top; border-top: 1px solid gray;" | For your amazing work on [[WP:VG/D]]. [[User:Krator]] ([[User talk:Krator|t]] [[Special:Contributions/Krator|c]]) 22:28, 9 December 2007 (UTC)
|}
Thank you, that was a very kind gesture, I'll try to keep it up. :) [[User:Someone another|Someone another]] ([[User talk:Someone another#top|talk]]) 22:51, 9 December 2007 (UTC)
== Requested Changes ==
Hi, I made the changes you requested to [[President Forever 2008 + Primaries]]. Please let me know if there is anything else that needs to be done. Thanks for your help! [[User:Blandish|Blandish]] ([[User talk:Blandish|talk]]) 22:32, 9 December 2007 (UTC)
:Now that the changes have been made, is this still a stub article? How do you get a GA ranking? [[User:Blandish|Blandish]] ([[User talk:Blandish|talk]]) 06:04, 10 December 2007 (UTC)
Hello there Blandish. Currently the article is still a stub, before I'd personally upgrade it to a start rating there needs to be some hole-filling and rewriting, it still doesn't resemble a basic article outline. Good Article status is achieved when an uninvolved editor checks the article against a set of standards, and the article is upgraded to their specification. However, there need to be several secondary sources available for an article to reach GA status, regardless of anything else. There's just enough cites to prevent the article from being deleted under our [[WP:N|notability]] guideline, but certainly not enough for GA. I'd hold that thought for now.
What the article needs is the following sections:
The lead. This is the chunk of text that goes before any subheadings, it should be one or two paragraphs, it's the lead's job to summarize the rest of the article and basically tell the reader what the subject of the article is. A reader [[WP:AMNESIA|completely unfamiliar]] with the subject should be able to walk away with an understanding of the game without reading anything except the lead. It's a 'quick reference', in effect. The lead is difficult to build until the article is fairly complete since a lot of it is a summary.
The next heading should be 'gameplay', which does what it says on the tin, and in most game articles no sub-headings are needed, PF2008 is no different. It should give the reader an understanding of what goes on during play without going into excessive detail. What is the aim of the game? What does the player do? All those subheadings need to be collapsed into paragraphs like this, though there are too many different terms used and it needs bringing down to flowing prose (like this, basically).
'Development' should contain details about how, why and when the game was developed. This information ''needs citing'', as do all aspects of the article. If a reliable source of information isn't supplying the information it shouldn't be in the article. Development is an important part of a video game article, though details on development are not necessarily available, depends on the game.
'Reception' needs to contain how the game was received by secondary sources (IE reviews/previews/features) which are [[WP:RS|reliable]]. Virtually every game (unless there are exceptional circumstances, and these aren't) '''needs''' one of these if it's to ascend the ratings. It would be advisable to let me handle this, to maintain neutrality.
Sources are king. Reliable secondary sources (like the game tunnel review) not only establish notability, it's preferable to use them to reference as much as possible. Any gaps need to be filled in with primary sources (in this case it would be Theoryspark's own documentation).
And there you have it. To top it off, the images used in the article are waaay too big, we need to keep image sizes down. The text needs rewriting anyway but there are some terms in there which you wouldn't expect normally. I'll try to help you fix these things.
I think there's more than enough there for you digest in one sitting, let me know what you think and I'll try my best to help you hammer out a decent article.[[User:Someone another|Someone another]] ([[User talk:Someone another#top|talk]]) 07:06, 10 December 2007 (UTC)
:Hey Someone another. This is phenominal information and I'll put it to practice as I rewrite the gameplay section. You certainly have invested a lot of time into this, which I really appreciate. No wonder you got the star. I noticed you removed it entire gameplay section for now and I'm wondering how you want me to handle the rewritten gameplay stuff once I'm done. Should I modify the article, or provide it to you to review first? Thanks again for your help. [[User:Blandish|Blandish]] ([[User talk:Blandish|talk]]) 18:51, 11 December 2007 (UTC)
::Looking at the history of the page, I noticed why you removed the gamplay section. I originally got that info from the Media package that theoryspark put together, which I would have assumed was designed for public use. It seems theoryspark just recently did a copy and paste from the media info to the web-page. [[User:Blandish|Blandish]] ([[User talk:Blandish|talk]]) 18:55, 11 December 2007 (UTC)
:::I see, sorry for the assumption, at that point in time the article wasn't quite looking as I'd expected, after clocking the similarities between the two texts I copied some over and compared it in the editspace. After seeing some of it was word for word I thought it best to just take it out and start again. The problem with it is that we don't just copy text or slightly alter it and present it as original work, we're supposed to take sources and express them in a way that's neutral, not too detailed or vague etc. etc. It's difficult to get your head around at first, there's a hell of a lot of information to take in about how articles are written here.
::::I'm certainly struggling with wrapping my head around all this. :) It often seems my ideas of good articles are far from what actually is one. Getting better though. Once I'm through all this, I may just consider a career in journalism. :) [[User:Blandish|Blandish]] ([[User talk:Blandish|talk]]) 22:25, 12 December 2007 (UTC)
:::After looking at the sources available coupled with the less than ideal material from TheorySpark, I must admit that the article is probably focused on the wrong game. The original President Forever has a [[GameSpot]] review and an article in the... Washington Post, I think it is, as well as some other sources (I think Game Tunnel reviewed it as well). Those are infinitely better at establishing [[WP:N|notability]] and providing good material to create an article from. There's so little material between the two articles we have on PF2008 that I'm struggling to write anything for it. What I'm planning on doing is starting an article here in my namespace (IE just my little corner of Wikipedia here, not the encyclopedia proper) on President Forever. It'd be a lot easier to show you the general sort of material and writing style that way, it'd result in a much better article and some PF2008+primaries detail could be included there in a separate section. I'll get started in the next couple of days when I get a minute. [[User:Someone another|Someone another]] ([[User talk:Someone another#top|talk]]) 12:20, 12 December 2007 (UTC)
::::I've re-written the whole game-play section so be in a more prose style. I haven't change the article because I'm not sure if you'd like to read it first before I change it or if I should just go ahead and add the stuff. Let me know what you'd like to do. I do like your idea of changing it more to a President Forever series, or something more general like "Political Games Forever series" which would include all the countries. It would be a little harder to write for all countries as the whole election process changes so dramatically for the different countries, but that might not even come into play with the actual article as it may not go into that much detail. Basic principles still remain. I know there are also a bunch of sources for the canadian game. I found articls of CBS partnering with the company and also having a televised interview with the owner. So I can also start looking at preparing a more general article. If you want, I can make any changes to the page you were planning on creating instead of the live page. [[User:Blandish|Blandish]] ([[User talk:Blandish|talk]]) 22:25, 12 December 2007 (UTC)
:::::You don't need to wait for approval, [[WP:BOLD|be bold]], if it's a stab in the right direction it can always be tweaked. [[User:Someone another|Someone another]] ([[User talk:Someone another#top|talk]]) 04:32, 14 December 2007 (UTC)
::::::Added the new detail. Thanks for your help as always. [[User:Blandish|Blandish]] ([[User talk:Blandish|talk]]) 05:41, 14 December 2007 (UTC)
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== Thank You. ==
Thank you for your assistance in the matter of the Yoshi's Story article. We had reached a huge deadlock due Punctured_Bicycle's actions, and, as we said in the Discussion page, neither side responded maturely. However, we appreciate your moderation during this time. We had been working on the Yoshi's Story page for weeks and simply couldn't watch Punctured_Bicycle delete all our work.
The account EliotAndrews actually represents a number of individuals that log in and contribute to articles, and Yoshi's Story was our latest project. (As Wikipedia share its pages with its users, we share this account in a similar manner.) When Punctured_Bicycle continued to delete our work in spite, we were greatly offended. Therefore, we appreciate the guidance you've provided.
We hope to create a neutral version of the page, but we are adamant in our stand that the work is accurate. (After all, most of us here lived through that "era" in Nintendo's history as teenagers; We witnessed everything unfold firsthand.) We don't want to "protect" the page as much as we want to craft it into the most acceptable version. We would very much like people to read it to understand, not to be offended. Unfortunately, this seems to be a common theme, particularly with Nintendo-related articles. However, with your support, we would very much like to bring peace to the issue.
Thanks again for your help. - [[User:EliotAndrews|EliotAndrews]] ([[User talk:EliotAndrews|talk]]) 02:23, 23 December 2007 (UTC)
== Life saver ==
Hello Someone Another. That statement's now been reinstated and referenced. Thanks for the spot!!! [[User:Ashnard|<font color="green">'''Ashnard'''</font>]] <sub>[[User talk:Ashnard|'''<font color="red">Talk</font>''']]</sub> <sup>[[Special:Contributions/Ashnard|'''<font color="black">'''Contribs'''</font>''']]</sup> 10:08, 30 December 2007 (UTC)
== Non-english reviews ==
[[La Repubblica ]] did a news article on their main page for [[President Forever 2008 + Primaries]] and I'm curious how to handle something like this. I could use the google-translator to get excerpts. Let me know your thoughts. Cheers! [[User:Blandish|Blandish]] ([[User talk:Blandish|talk]]) 20:11, 15 January 2008 (UTC)
:Hi Blandish, there is a way of citing non-english language sources but I've no idea how. I've looked at [[WP:CITE]] and some other documents but they're not giving me any clues. I'd suggest having a look through the help files and consulting the village pump if all else fails. Sorry I can't be of any further use. [[User:Someone another|Someone]][[User_talk:Someone another|another]] 13:23, 16 January 2008 (UTC)
== flash games ==
Hi. i just saw your extremely helpful note at the deletion discussion re Flashtrek. Thanks so much. I appreciate it. your sugegstion is especially helpful coming from someone who clearly wants to adhere to clear Wikipedia standards, yet is willing to suggest positive ways to meet standards and yet to include further content. thanks so much. your comment shows a lot of openness. this is what Wikipedia is all about. i look forward to further discussions. please feel free to add any further comments, ideas, etc, anytime. thanks. (By the way, I noted your great suggestion re the Jays GAmes site, and have already done so and submitted a suggestion.) thanks. --[[User:Sm8900|Steve, Sm8900]] ([[User talk:Sm8900|talk]]) 14:51, 17 January 2008 (UTC)
== Video game types ==
I think this would be a really useful article by now. [[Serious games]], [[Casual games]], [[Advergames]] and so on. I have no clue where to find references. But there does seem to be SOME common sense about what constitutes a type, versus a genre. Either way, I think it would be helpful to have a parallel article to the [[video game genres]] article. Actually, the [[Video_game_genres#Video_game_genres_by_purpose]] section is very close to what we need, IMO. Anyway, I know you're busy with other stuff. But do what you can, whenever you can. (PS: I gave [[Vehicle simulation game]] some work.) [[Special:Contributions/65.95.156.135|65.95.156.135]] ([[User talk:65.95.156.135|talk]]) 06:11, 18 January 2008 (UTC)
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