Wikipedia:Files for deletion/2007 July 18: Difference between revisions
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*:Exactly. That's why the picture here is used to describe the... picture and the event that lead to it being taken.--[[User:Konstable|Konstable]] 05:54, 19 July 2007 (UTC) |
*:Exactly. That's why the picture here is used to describe the... picture and the event that lead to it being taken.--[[User:Konstable|Konstable]] 05:54, 19 July 2007 (UTC) |
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*::Describing a picture and the event that lead to it being taken is not enough to satisfy item #8 of out [[WP:NFCC|policy]]. Otherwise pretty much any picture ever taken would be able to pass this criterion. --''[[User:Abu badali|Abu badali]] <sup>([[User_talk:Abu badali|talk]])</sup>'' 12:20, 19 July 2007 (UTC) |
*::Describing a picture and the event that lead to it being taken is not enough to satisfy item #8 of out [[WP:NFCC|policy]]. Otherwise pretty much any picture ever taken would be able to pass this criterion. --''[[User:Abu badali|Abu badali]] <sup>([[User_talk:Abu badali|talk]])</sup>'' 12:20, 19 July 2007 (UTC) |
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*:::I'm sorry but I think you are not following the argument. Please have a read of the section which uses the photo, then have a look at one of the [http://books.google.com/books?q=einstein+tongue+sticking+out&btnG=Search+Books&as_brr=0 hundreds of books] that reference this photo, then explain how [http://www.google.com/search |
*:::I'm sorry but I think you are not following the argument. Please have a read of the section which uses the photo, then have a look at one of the [http://books.google.com/books?q=einstein+tongue+sticking+out&btnG=Search+Books&as_brr=0 hundreds of books] that reference this photo, then explain how [http://www.google.com/searchq=einstein+tongue+out+buy these are not part of popular culture around Einstein]. And then make some specific statements that I can respond to if needed.--[[User:Konstable|Konstable]] 13:22, 19 July 2007 (UTC) |
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Revision as of 13:24, 19 July 2007
July 18
- "No known copyright policy" and "freely downloaded" are not valid reasons for fair use. I do not see how fair use could apply in the way it is used in the two articles that link to it. — Konstable 13:26, 18 July 2007 (UTC)
- I fail to see how this image is a "non-repeatable historic event that is iconically associated with Albert Einstein". Legitimate fair-use photos of persons are extremely rare, and in this case, a replacement can be found. How is Einstein sticking out his tong so remarkable that a picture of it qualifies under fair use? SalaSkan (Review me) 01:13, 18 July 2007 (UTC)
- Keep This picture is iconic of Einstein. It is ubiquitous in American culture at the very least, and as the rational states, it (the picture itself) is in fact talked about in the article--Cronholm144 01:22, 18 July 2007 (UTC)
- Keep Not just a picture of a famous man, but a famous picture in its own right. Q.E.D. Fair use at Einstein, but not on user pages.--Father Goose 04:08, 18 July 2007 (UTC)
- True, fair use does not extend to userpages. I will give them the heads up--Cronholm144 04:10, 18 July 2007 (UTC)
- .... rmed and alerted via my edit summary. Should I mention it on their talk pages as well? --Cronholm144 04:20, 18 July 2007 (UTC)
- I already told users about using the image just yesterday :-) Cheers. Sasquatch t|c 16:01, 18 July 2007 (UTC)
- Keep. per Cronholm. Search for more references, e.g. [1], [2], etc --Quiddity 06:21, 18 July 2007 (UTC)
- Keep It is very culturally relevant and is a good example of Einstein's place in pop culture both then and now. As to 'Userpages' ONE userbox used it, and ONE user page had that box (mine). I've changed the image to a free use image. Tiki God 08:38, 18 July 2007 (UTC)
- Sorry 'bout that, but I didn't want there to be any doubt about keeping the image. It was on 3 userpages not including yours BTW.--Cronholm144 08:42, 18 July 2007 (UTC)
- Delete. This image is used in the Albert Einstein article. There are free photos of Einstein, so this image can't be used to depict the person. It is argued above that the image is notable in-and-of itself. . . but the event depicted is only mentioned in one sentence. The photo is not notable enough to be the primary focus of a major section of the article, so it is not notable enough to pass NFCC #8. The evidence above that the image is popular does not show that the image "contributes significantly to an article", which is what is required. – Quadell (talk) (random) 13:39, 18 July 2007 (UTC)
- Keep only if discussion about the image is expanded - (Delete otherwise). Currently, the article simply describes (in one sentence) the occasion at which the picture was taken. This isn't enough to keep this image. But I believe it's possible to write a whole sub-section (or even a small article) about this picture. The subsection should mainly describe why is this image considered iconic and should completely avoid original research. We need many reliable sources talking about this image's notability, and not simply using the image (it's not up to us, as a tertiary source, to conclude that as it's heavily used, it's iconic and important)! I'm not convinced the sources provided in this ifd would suffice. The google search is obviously moot (I could prove that some images of Paris Hilton are iconic using this criteria). Although the neatorama.com article is a good reading, I don't think it count as a reliable source. And the msnnbc article doesn't discuss the image's notability at all. But I do believe such source can be found. But unless they are found, the image must be deleted. --Abu badali (talk) 16:10, 18 July 2007 (UTC)
- Keep only if expanded text is written in a new “Albert Einstein in popular culture” article. Otherwise delete. The Albert Einstein article is already 85KB long. (By the way, someone should look at the other fair use images in this article.) --teb728 18:40, 18 July 2007 (UTC)
- Comment I fully agree with TEB728. Apparently, this picture is "iconic" of Einstein, but currently, the article merely states this:
- "On Einstein's 72nd birthday in 1951, UPI photographer Arthur Sasse was trying to persuade him to smile for the camera, but having smiled for photographers many times that day, Einstein stuck out his tongue instead (Kupper 2000)."
- That's all, and far too little to justify a fair use image to me. Also, it isn't even sourced. Like TEB said, when there is an Albert Einstein in popular culture article (and I'm sure it could be created, see for example Adolf Hitler in popular culture), and the cultural impact of this picture is demonstrated, a fair use claim might be legitimate. Not now. SalaSkan 18:47, 18 July 2007 (UTC)
- Delete unless expanded commentary is made: I concur with Abu badali, teb728, and Quadell. There's nothing in the inline text of this article to indicate why this picture is significant in any way other than that he stuck his tongue out for it. I think most of us have seen this image used countless times outside of Wikipedia. There's certainly substantial enough material *somewhere* to go on about the iconic nature of this image. But, it's not extant in this article. If the article is expanded to comment (significantly, I might add, not just to keep the image but with real relevance to Einstein) then perhaps the image could remain. Otherwise, it's purely decorative. I don't see the point. If it's culturally relevant, then write about it. If it's iconic, then write about it. But, to have a sentence about him sticking his tongue out...so what? Is there anyone among us who's never stuck their tongue before??? Are we depicting that he CAN, in fact, stick out his tongue? I don't recall Einstein having a tongue disability. --Durin 20:52, 18 July 2007 (UTC)
- Honestly? not only one of the most famous photos in the world, but one with a pop culture attached to it as anyone who has ever been to a bookshop would know, it takes much less time to add this "commentary" than to write up an IfD and then comments of the length of Durin's. {{sofixit}}--Konstable 21:18, 18 July 2007 (UTC)
- Seriously? Probably one of the ten or twenty most iconic photos in the history of photography ... if the section needs work, though, someone should work it. WilyD 21:23, 18 July 2007 (UTC)
- Comment, guys, fair use is not about what the thing is, it's about how the thing is used. --bainer (talk) 02:04, 19 July 2007 (UTC)
- Exactly. That's why the picture here is used to describe the... picture and the event that lead to it being taken.--Konstable 05:54, 19 July 2007 (UTC)
- Describing a picture and the event that lead to it being taken is not enough to satisfy item #8 of out policy. Otherwise pretty much any picture ever taken would be able to pass this criterion. --Abu badali (talk) 12:20, 19 July 2007 (UTC)
- I'm sorry but I think you are not following the argument. Please have a read of the section which uses the photo, then have a look at one of the hundreds of books that reference this photo, then explain how these are not part of popular culture around Einstein. And then make some specific statements that I can respond to if needed.--Konstable 13:22, 19 July 2007 (UTC)
- Describing a picture and the event that lead to it being taken is not enough to satisfy item #8 of out policy. Otherwise pretty much any picture ever taken would be able to pass this criterion. --Abu badali (talk) 12:20, 19 July 2007 (UTC)
- Exactly. That's why the picture here is used to describe the... picture and the event that lead to it being taken.--Konstable 05:54, 19 July 2007 (UTC)
- orphaned, unencyclopedic Bleh999 01:26, 18 July 2007 (UTC)
Comment--Did it get superseded, replaced, etc? If there is no chance it will get used again put me down for delete.--Cronholm144 01:31, 18 July 2007 (UTC)
- SilverBull (notify | contribs). - uploaded by
- Orphaned and unencyclopediadic — Matt 01:38, 18 July 2007 (UTC)
- Delete--Cronholm144 01:42, 18 July 2007 (UTC)
- Delete - Per Reasons for deletion, "Images that are unused, obsolete, violate fair-use policy, or are unencyclopedic". (Guyinblack25 18:28, 18 July 2007 (UTC))
- Biginjapan91 (notify | contribs). - uploaded by
- Orphaned, Unencyclopedic, Absent uploader Nv8200p talk 02:03, 18 July 2007 (UTC)
- Delete--Cronholm144 02:05, 18 July 2007 (UTC)
- Obsoleted by correctly named Image:Rangitikei.jpg — Grutness...wha? 02:12, 18 July 2007 (UTC).
- unused and like Image:Black-monitor.jpg OsamaK 03:49, 18 July 2007 (UTC)
- Image is a promo image obviously, but source listed is likely not the original site for this photo, and the page itself does not load, only the link to the image itself, with no copyright info at all. 74.204.40.46 07:12, 18 July 2007 (UTC)
- Promo image from a television series, with no source listed, and no copyright information listed. 74.204.40.46 07:27, 18 July 2007 (UTC)
Dawson's Creek Publicity Photos
- Publicity photos of characters taken from www.dawsonscreek.com. Site says all material is copyright Sony Pictures, all rights reserved. All these can easily be replaced by screen caps of the characters, as done for Star Trek publicity photos.74.204.40.46 07:39, 18 July 2007 (UTC)
- Image:Dawson Leery.jpg
- Image:Jen Lindley.jpg
- Image:Joey Potter.jpg
- Image:Pacey Witter.jpg
Star Trek Photos
- I know this was discussed at length, but the screen shots that replaced the old deleted images, are again being replaced by photos with no source or copyright info, and quite frankly, look like publicity photos again.74.204.40.46 08:05, 18 July 2007 (UTC)
- Image:BCrusher2379.jpg
- Image:Picard2379a.jpg
- Image:Data2379.jpg
- Image:Worf2379.jpg
- Image:Troi2379.jpg
- Worf and Troi are screenshots from Star Trek: Nemesis, the others have been updated with free and clear screenshotsm also from Nemesis. My bad. Squiggyfm 18:59, 18 July 2007 (UTC)
- Delete the old versions and the orphans - Picard is orphan (the image, not the captain), and we already have plenty of images of him. The old version of the images replaced by screenshots (like Worf) should be removed. --Abu badali (talk) 12:25, 19 July 2007 (UTC)
- Worf and Troi are screenshots from Star Trek: Nemesis, the others have been updated with free and clear screenshotsm also from Nemesis. My bad. Squiggyfm 18:59, 18 July 2007 (UTC)
- Images still don't have any license or copyright information on them74.204.40.46 06:34, 19 July 2007 (UTC)
- Delete Crusher, Picard and Data, but save Worf and Troi as those are screenshots from the Film Nemesis and are fair use as they are identifing elements of the motion picture.Squiggyfm 13:14, 19 July 2007 (UTC)
- Not linked anywhere, no encyclopedic purpose. — Wafulz 14:55, 18 July 2007 (UTC)
- Delete - I agree with Wafulz. Per Reasons for deletion, "Content not suitable for an encyclopedia" and "Images that are unused, obsolete, violate fair-use policy, or are unencyclopedic". (Guyinblack25 18:28, 18 July 2007 (UTC))
- Not enough evidence that the author died more than 70 years ago (but if this image ould be found to be PD for some other reason...) Abu badali (talk) 15:48, 18 July 2007 (UTC)
- Use of the Ohio State University logo---and its special type---consititutes a violation of copyright and trademark law. In addition, because of such, it was removed from the Ohio State University template, and its removal as per terms Wikipedia:Fair_use#Policy item #9 from the OSU template has left it orphaned. AEMoreira042281 16:19, 18 July 2007 (UTC)
- Uploader/creator's comment: I made the image freehand on my computer. I thought what Ohio State would/could have copyrighted were the "O" with a buckeye leaf on the bottom, right corner and the "O" with "Ohio State" written through it. I didn't know that one could copyright a generic red letter "O" with a gray outline (easily made on any word processor program). If I was mistaken, I sincerely apologize, and have it be deleted. hmwith talk 17:01, 18 July 2007 (UTC)
- Image is of a living person who wants image to be deleted. The image, I believe, has been previously removed and has been uploaded by another user, who appears to have used a sockpuppet. — Jgassens 16:33, 18 July 2007 (UTC)
- Image is of a living person who wants image to be deleted. The image, I believe, has been previously removed and has been uploaded by another user, who appears to have used a sockpuppet. — Jgassens 16:38, 18 July 2007 (UTC)
- Image is of a living person who wants image to be deleted. The image, I believe, has been previously removed and has been uploaded by another user, who appears to have used a sockpuppet.
- Hayford Peirce (notify | contribs). - uploaded by
- Magazine cover used for identification purposes of the subject only. howcheng {chat} 16:48, 18 July 2007 (UTC)
- Magazine cover used without any critical commentary of the cover itself. howcheng {chat} 16:51, 18 July 2007 (UTC)
- Quadzilla99 (notify | contribs). - uploaded by
- Non-free screnshot showing an athlete being interviewed in a talk-show, used to illustrate the information that he was once interviewed in this talk show. Abu badali (talk) 18:07, 18 July 2007 (UTC)
- Quadzilla99 (notify | contribs). - uploaded by
- Unnecessary non-free screenshot doesn't adds any noteworthy information that isn't already conveyed with text. Abu badali (talk) 18:13, 18 July 2007 (UTC)
- Quadzilla99 (notify | contribs). - uploaded by
- Unnecessaary, non-free image of a magazine's cover showing an athleted. It's used to illustrate the information that the athlete was featured on the cover. It doesn't seem to add any noteworthy information that isn't already conveyed with text. Abu badali (talk) 18:16, 18 July 2007 (UTC)
- Quadzilla99 (notify | contribs). - uploaded by
- tv.yahoo.com is not a source for promo material. their images are to enhance their site, not ours. Abu badali (talk) 18:26, 18 July 2007 (UTC)
- Quadzilla99 (notify | contribs). - uploaded by
- Unnecessary non-free image showing an athlete playing basketball. It doesn't add any noteworthy information that isn't already conveyed with text. Abu badali (talk) 18:29, 18 July 2007 (UTC)
- Quadzilla99 (notify | contribs). - uploaded by
- Unnecessary non-free image showing a basketball player playing basketball. It doesn't add any noteworthy information that isn't already conveyed with text. Abu badali (talk) 18:31, 18 July 2007 (UTC)
- ShadowJester07 (notify | contribs). - uploaded by
- Unnecessary non-free image from a news agency showing a basketball player playing baseball. It's used to illustrate the info that he once played baseball. It doesn't add any noteworthy information that isn't already conveyed with text. Abu badali (talk) 18:32, 18 July 2007 (UTC)
Images from User:Kay Körner
On July 16 I received this message on my talk page from an administrator on the Commons, warning me to be careful about images uploaded by User:Kay Körner (who also uploads as User:Lucken), who had been blocked at Commons for repeatedly uploading images against policy. I looked through Kay's uploads and found several images tagged as if they were free, but which appeared to be copyright violations. I asked Kay about these, but received a rather bizarre and non-informative response (here). There may be some genuine free contributions among the copyvios, but I think it's better to delete than take chances, given the uploader's history and response. Here are the suspected copyright violations:
- Image:Single scull.jpg
- Image:Dynamo Founding 1953.jpg
- Image:Erich Mielke SV Dynamo.jpg
- Image:Dynamo Medals.jpg
- Image:BFC Dynamo Sweater.png
- Image:Dynamo Honary Needle Document.jpg
- Image:Dynamo Honoary Needle.jpg
- Image:Dynamo Pins for the bests.jpg
In addition, this user uploaded the following non-free images which are not used in article space. I'm listing them here, rather than tagging them {{orfud}}, because I have reason to believe the user would remove the notices.
- Image:Dynamo Magdeburg pennant.jpg
- Image:Dynamo Zinnwald.png
- Image:Dynamo Magdeburg Pennant.jpg
- Image:Dynamo KJS.jpg
- Image:Dynamo Magdeburg.jpg
- Image:Dynamo Steyr.png
- Image:Dynamo Fürstenwalde.png
- Image:Dynamo Gräfentonna.png
- Image:Dynamo Eisleben.png
- Image:Dynamo Aschersleben.png
- Image:Dynamo Zinnwald.png
- Image:Dynamo Potsdam.png
- Image:Dynamo Frankfurt Oder (SGDF).png
- Image:Dynamo Cottbus.png
- Image:Dynamo Pirna.png
- Image:SV Dynamo1960-1970'ers.png
- Image:BFC Dynamo embroidery.jpg
And these images are used, but are mostly just used decoratively, and have no source. (Many are mistagged as well: dolls as logos, photos as posters, etc.)
- Image:Deutscher Turn und Sportbund of the GDR.jpg
- Image:Dynamo Puppet.jpg
- Image:Dynamoparade in GDR Berlin.png
- Image:Dynamo Honoary Needle1.jpg
- Image:Sportvereinigung Dynamo 1953.png
- Image:Sport Association Dynamo.jpg
- Image:Dynamo Festival.jpg
- Image:Dynamo Berlin.jpg
- Image:Sport Association Dynamo.png
- Image:SV Dynamo1953-1960'ers.png
If any of these are worth keeping, we should determine an adequate source and improve the rationale. – Quadell (talk) (random) 19:01, 18 July 2007 (UTC)
- P.S. I was just informed that this user also uploads as User:Fox53, and has been blocked from the German Wikipedia for uploading improper images as well. – Quadell (talk) (random) 20:00, 18 July 2007 (UTC)
- ShadowJester07 (notify | contribs). - uploaded by
- Unnecessary non-free screenshot showing an American football kicker siging a song, used to illustrate the info that he sang that song. Abu badali (talk) 18:39, 18 July 2007 (UTC)
- suspected copyvio – Quadell (talk) (random) 19:44, 18 July 2007 (UTC)
- suspected copyvio. The source site says everything is copyrighted. – Quadell (talk) (random) 19:48, 18 July 2007 (UTC)
- Arcangel619 (notify | contribs). - uploaded by
- Doubting the PD claim Abu badali (talk) 19:56, 18 July 2007 (UTC)
- Arcangel619 (notify | contribs). - uploaded by
- I'm doubting the authorship claim Abu badali (talk) 19:57, 18 July 2007 (UTC)
- Arcangel619 (notify | contribs). - uploaded by
- I'm doubting the authorship claim- Abu badali (talk) 20:03, 18 July 2007 (UTC)
- Book cover, only used decoratively in an article that doesn't mention the book – Quadell (talk) (random) 20:05, 18 July 2007 (UTC)
- Book cover, only used decoratively in an article that doesn't mention the book – Quadell (talk) (random) 20:05, 18 July 2007 (UTC)
- Book cover, only used decoratively in an article that doesn't mention the book – Quadell (talk) (random) 20:06, 18 July 2007 (UTC)
- Unnecessary non-free screenshot showing an artisting making a declaration on tv, used (in 5 articles) to illustrate the information that he appeared on tv to make such declaration. Abu badali (talk) 20:09, 18 July 2007 (UTC)
- Stevertigo (notify | contribs). - uploaded by
- Image of a young Einstein with unknown copyrigth status (as explained on the image's description page). The image is not crucial to the understanding of any of the articles it's used in. Abu badali (talk) 20:14, 18 July 2007 (UTC)
- Unnecessary non-free image of Einstein receiving a medal. It doesn't seem to help on the understanding of the topics of none of the 7 articles it's used in. Abu badali (talk) 20:17, 18 July 2007 (UTC)
- Dwaipayanc (notify | contribs). - uploaded by
- Unsourced image used under fair use, showing "2 monumental personalities" meeting. Used to illustrate the information that these 2 monumental personalities once met. In the 3 articles it's used in, it doesn't seem to add any noteworthy information that isn't already conveyed with text. Abu badali (talk) 20:38, 18 July 2007 (UTC)
- Isn't this under PD, considering the age of the photo? --Ragib 20:39, 18 July 2007 (UTC)
- PD has to do with when was the image first published, and not when it was produced. And in the lack of source information, we can't establish that. Of course, if this image is discovered to be in PD, I shouldn't be deleted. --Abu badali (talk) 21:45, 18 July 2007 (UTC)
- At least one of the subjects (Tagore) died in 1940, so the image has to be pre-1940. Most likely it is pre 1933, if taken in Germany. --Ragib 23:46, 18 July 2007 (UTC)
- Even if we assume the supposedly German photographer died in the first years of the War, it isn't still 70 years since then. --Abu badali (talk) 12:29, 19 July 2007 (UTC)
- At least one of the subjects (Tagore) died in 1940, so the image has to be pre-1940. Most likely it is pre 1933, if taken in Germany. --Ragib 23:46, 18 July 2007 (UTC)
- PD has to do with when was the image first published, and not when it was produced. And in the lack of source information, we can't establish that. Of course, if this image is discovered to be in PD, I shouldn't be deleted. --Abu badali (talk) 21:45, 18 July 2007 (UTC)
- Orphaned because Image:Cascadia earthquake sources.png made this image obsolete. PNG crusade bot 20:38, 18 July 2007 (UTC)
- Unnecessary non-free image showing two physicist witting a notable letter, used (in 6 articles!) to illustrate the information that they wrote that letter. In none of the 6 article it's used in, it seem to add any noteworthy information that isn't already conveyed with text. Abu badali (talk) 20:45, 18 July 2007 (UTC)
- Non-free image of Einstein playing a violin in a synaogue, used to illustrate the information that the once played the violing ona a synagogue. It doesn't seem to add any noteworthy information that isn't already conveyed with text. Also, no source information is provided. Abu badali (talk) 20:58, 18 July 2007 (UTC)
- Keep, illustrates his connection to Judaism. No free photo is available. Epson291 21:08, 18 July 2007 (UTC)
- Non-free image of Einstein laughing with some diplomats, used to illustrate the information that the once met these diplomats. It doesn't seem to add any noteworthy information that isn't already conveyed with text. Also, no source information is provided. Abu badali (talk) 21:06, 18 July 2007 (UTC)
- Keep, illustrates his work with Zionism and the creation of the State of Israel. No free illustration available. Epson291 21:09, 18 July 2007 (UTC)
- Derivative work of copyrighted material --Eyrian 21:13, 18 July 2007 (UTC)
- TheSequelofDisney (notify | contribs). - uploaded by
- This image has two rationales. The first seems to have been designed to cover every theorhetical eventuality a DVD cover could be used for, but it does not specifically address how the image significantly contributes to the article. The second rationale: "For an article about a tv-serie, the cover artwork is very important and adds significantly to the article." is very ambiguous and again, doesn't fulfill WP:NFCC#8. The image is not discussed or referenced in the article, and seems to have no special significance aside from decoration of the DVD section of the Heroes article. — pd_THOR | =/\= | 21:24, 18 July 2007 (UTC)
- This image of Einstein is not PD in the U.S.A. Abu badali (talk) 22:59, 18 July 2007 (UTC)
-
- See Wikipedia:Public domain#Canadian images: Yousuf Karsh. --Abu badali (talk) 23:13, 18 July 2007 (UTC)
- By the way.... Speedy per WP:CSD#G4: Image:Albert Einstein by Yousuf Karsh.jpg. --Abu badali (talk) 23:14, 18 July 2007 (UTC)
- See Wikipedia:Public domain#Canadian images: Yousuf Karsh. --Abu badali (talk) 23:13, 18 July 2007 (UTC)
- Rsabbatini (notify | contribs). - uploaded by
- Photo used under fair use, but source given is a "private collection". Rare case of WP:NFCC#4 violation. Abu badali (talk) 23:05, 18 July 2007 (UTC)
- OR EdwardSands.jpg - obsoleted by Sands1.jpg Pikabruce 23:10, 18 July 2007 (UTC)Pikabruce
- Rsabbatini (notify | contribs). - uploaded by
- Image from Nobel Foundation, that releases their images for a fee for those interestes. Our use does not respect the market opportunities of the copyright holder. Abu badali (talk) 23:17, 18 July 2007 (UTC)