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This article is within the scope of WikiProject Internet, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of the Internet on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.InternetWikipedia:WikiProject InternetTemplate:WikiProject InternetInternet articles
Are you sure making an article is a good idea? Yeah, there was a lot of commentary in the press on the incident (WP:109PAPERS), but I don't think the product went anywhere after that. I could be wrong though, but I'm not particularly inclined to research the topic any further. JMP EAX (talk) 21:37, 10 August 2014 (UTC)[reply]
It is notable as a technology controversy, not as an application. However, per WP:COMMONNAME calling the article Titstare is probably more appropraite than calling it the Titstare controversy. I doubt you will find many controversies arising from tech events that get this much coverage internationally in major mainstream non-tech publications, and had lingering notability for being cited a long while after.[1] If there are, those are notable too and could have their own articles if anyone cared to write them. Only a small fraction of notable encyclopedic subjects actually have articles about them, so it's a matter of priorities. I think I can expand this into an article that is useful for the reader as a window into the Internet culture of its time and place. - Wikidemon (talk) 21:52, 10 August 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Well, if you're into that, you could also add something to Python Conference about the 2013 incident, which generated a lot of press [2] (google: PyCon and SendGrid). And probably write a full article of "he said, she said" too... Not my cup of tea though (writing a full article about something like this). JMP EAX (talk) 21:58, 10 August 2014 (UTC)[reply]
I can see a list or category in Wikipedia's future, list of minor controversies over incidents of perceived sexism in the app startup community. We jus teed a catchy name for it, like TitStareGate. - Wikidemon (talk) 19:46, 11 August 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Dickinson's resignation
The given source says "Two days after the TechCrunch show, Business Insider forced Mr. Dickinson to resign." It says nothing about why. Mentioning his forced resignation in the context of this article implies the synthetic conclusion that it was a result of Titstare or his tweets about it. Unless a reliable source asserting causation is produced, it stays out. betafive05:33, 16 August 2014 (UTC)[reply]
The source clearly says that Dickinson was forced to resign. There is no synthesis or original research, as it is in the original source material. To leave out this point, which is specifically highlighted in the article, misrepresents the article. NinjaRobotPirate (talk) 06:00, 16 August 2014 (UTC)[reply]
No, you only have to find one that explicitly links his firing to his tweet about Titstare. None of those do. They all claim he was fired for a whole slew of offensive tweets, most of which were not about Titstare. betafive15:49, 16 August 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Seriously? From NPR: "He'd been tweeting such things for years, but it was only this week that it got enough attention to cost him his job." That is an explicit statement that the Titstare tweets let to his resignation. You're bordering on WP:IDHT now. NinjaRobotPirate (talk) 17:36, 16 August 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Seriously. You might WP:KNOW that he was forced to resign because of his tweet regarding Titstare, but that's not supported by any of the sources you've given. They're all in agreement that he was forced to resign as a result of his general pattern of behavior on Twitter, not as a result of a specific tweet. How is his forced resignation relevant to the topic of this article, anyway? betafive18:50, 16 August 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Now you're trying to imply that Dickinson wrote the apology because he was forced to resign, which is also a synthetic conclusion. Give it up, none of the sources claim a causal connection between that particular tweet, his resignation, and the subsequent apology. Quit trying to edit-war it into the article. betafive19:03, 16 August 2014 (UTC)[reply]
No you didn't; you paraphrased a source to make it seem like he was forced to resign because of the Titstare controversy. The sources do not say that. Lol, WP:IDHT much? betafive19:09, 16 August 2014 (UTC)[reply]
I think they could establish a direct causal connection between the tweet about Titstare and his resignation. None do. betafive20:14, 16 August 2014 (UTC)[reply]
This is how newspaper writers write newspapers, Betafive. I think you should seriously drop this, and I think you could also consider dropping those irritating know-it-all bluelinks. I used to think that was cute too, but in a content dispute it's just irritating. Thanks for keeping an eye out, Randykitty. NinjaRobotPirate, one more thing: edit warring is edit warring even if you're right. Good thing that you were right. Drmies (talk) 22:17, 16 August 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Are you really saying that it is the job of Wikipedia editors to infer the facts from the vague implications of the news? Newspaper writers report what they know happened. If they don't report that Dickinson was fired for that tweet, but instead repeatedly point out that he has a whole history of problematic tweets, it's because the causal connection isn't known to be there. Lacking that, it's not appropriate content for this article. This is BLP issue, so we err on the side of caution. betafive00:05, 17 August 2014 (UTC)[reply]
I'll approach this one fresh. I don't have any opinion, I don't know who this Dickinson person or his relation to events. Stand by! - Wikidemon (talk) 00:16, 17 August 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Forbes source:[3] "A day after Valleywag raised a stink over Dickinson’s habit of using Twitter "... was “Forced to resign”... "Dickinson’s contretemps came at a particularly unfortunate moment". My conclusion: Forbes is not directly asserting that Dickinson is fired for his tweets or that the reaction to his tweets was a result of the Titstare controversy. They're deliberately making an implication, not a statement, because they don't know. Forbes does not imply any connection between his firing and his tweet specifically about Titstare. Outcome: source does not support Wikipedia making direct inference.
New York Magazine:[4] "forced to resign...following an online firestorm over his long history of controversial tweets".
Business Insider statement: (reproduced in reliable sources) "has made some comments on Twitter...has left the company, effective immediately." Analysis: coming from this source it is asserting a connection, but it is not saying which tweets are at issue.
NPR;[5] "A firestorm forced out Pax Dickinson...after his racist, sexist Twitter feed got wide notice." I read the word "after" as asserting causation. However, it is not mentioning that it was his tweet about Titstare.
Salon Magazine: "Dickinson’s Twitter trouble began when he lamented over TechCrunch’s apology for ... TitStare." That is drawing a direct connection.
My overall conclusion is that we do have sufficient sourcing to say that Dickenson, then CTO of Business Insider, was forced to resign after a tweet he made concerning TechCrunch's apology for Titstare and another application brought attention to a history of tweets that were seen as racist, sexist, homophobic, etc. - Wikidemon (talk) 00:22, 17 August 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Perhaps. AFAIK his resignation is at least as big an event as the Titstare controversy itself, probably bigger. We probably can't or shouldn't create an article about him, or it, for WP:BLP1E reasons. Also, reviewing this, it seems that his Titstare comments were a trigger for his firing but not the real reason or cause, they just set some things in motion that led to people reviewing his Twitter feed. In that sense, I do think it is of due weight with respect to this controversy because it is perhaps part of the aftermath. As it stands, I think that reporting his Titstare comments and people's reaction to them, without mentioning that he was subsequently fired over a history of Twitter comments that were perceived as sexist, etc. (but that he defended as satirical) would be missing the bigger picture. Although I think we have enough sourcing to include his firing and the surrounding controversy, I think that if we decide that it's too irrelevant or too much of a BLP problem to include here, we should take most or all mention of him out rather than giving readers only part of the story. - Wikidemon (talk) 04:24, 17 August 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Herearemoresourcesthatdon'timply a causal connection between Titstare and his resignation. Mentioning his resignation in this article is a way of delegitimizing his opinions about Titstare. Since they're being presented for WP:BALANCE, such an editorial-voice caveat isn't appropriate. We need to have some balance to all the claims that Titstare was misogynistic; if not Pax Dickinson, then who? betafive16:02, 17 August 2014 (UTC)[reply]
There need be no counterclaim, that Titstare was not misogynistic--why should there be? Is there such a counterclaim? Is there anyone besides you who argues it's not misogynistic? Drmies (talk) 17:30, 17 August 2014 (UTC)[reply]
His tweets seem to be part of the controversy more than they are a counter-opinion. It would be misleading to repeat them here without describing that context. If we merely need to show that enough people to meet WP:WEIGHT concerns defended the boob app then surely we can find someone who didn't get fired for saying so. - Wikidemon (talk) 18:41, 17 August 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Our sources say that Pax disagreed with the characterization of Titstare as "misogynist." That opinion balances the many accusations that Titstare was misogynist-- which, let's be honest, it wasn't. That the sources also mention his subsequent resignation as a result of the increased scrutiny of and outrage resulting from his history of provocative tweets is irrelevant. Many sources also note he then became the CTO at Glimpse under a female CEO-- should we mention that too? betafive00:47, 18 August 2014 (UTC)[reply]
