Talk:Barbara Lerner Spectre: Difference between revisions

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Here is a note I received from Lukeno94 on Dec. 13, 2013 about my adding the quote from BLS from the Israel Broadcasting Authority video, The Jews of Sweden: "This is your last warning. The next time you add defamatory content, as you did at Barbara Lerner Spectre, you may be blocked from editing without further notice. Lukeno94" Firstly, I documented that BLS said those words on the Israel Broadcasting Authority video, The Jews of Sweden. Secondly, if you Google BLS you will find most of the first pages results allude to this quote. How is it defamatory to accurately quote someone about something they said that is generating a lot or most of the current interest in her? What am I missing? Or what is Lukeno94 missing? JeffLB (talk) 17:54, 13 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]

— Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.46.7.104 (talk) 17:43, 13 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]

• It's pretty simple, and it's something I've said in the edit summaries you must've read; this is neither a notable event, nor is it a subject compliant with WP:NPOV, WP:UNDUE or WP:BLP. Lukeno94 (tell Luke off here) 21:38, 13 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]

• • Well Lukeno94, you in effect raise four objections and I'd like to respond to each of them. First objection: "not a notable event". BLS made a proclamation on a public program produced by the Israel Broadcasting Authority concerning the future of Europe and in particular the part Jews would play in bringing this future about. BLS is an accomplished woman who headed a prestigious organization and who said this on a respected television program. Many or most of the people who come to this page do indeed believe this is a notable event, for better or worse, or they wouldn't have come to this page to find out more about BLS. In the last 90 days this page has had 3,062 visits and considering Google search history, we can be reasonably confident that many or most of the visitors to this page have come because of their (positive or negative) reaction to this "event". Second objection: this quote is not a NPOV. I don't know how to even respond to that, other than to say that BLS said it and that is what has generated interest in her, whether positive or negative. The words were spoken in a very public way where BLS knew many people would see her actually speaking them in the program and she decided to say them. Thus quoting her is hardly promoting a POV or defamatory. Third objection: not meeting standards for articles about living persons. The words are verifiable and verified. They are significant. And fourth objection, that the words are given undue weight. The fact that many or most people are apparently coming to this page in itself gives the words a certain weight and significance. Where is the question of undue weight? I have carefully considered your objections, Lukeno94, and this is why I don't feel they justify deleting this quote. And by the way, I am Jewish and do not believe that this quote by BLS, however I feel about it, is defamatory against my relatives and fellow Jews, which I infer, perhaps incorrectly, that you believe. — Preceding unsigned comment added by JeffLB (talk • contribs) 22:56, 14 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]

• You're missing nothing. You documented it and the quote is not vandalization. Citing that quote is not taking sides in the debate. It was said. It's big on the internet. Naturally a Wikipedia article should mention it. You need to ignore people who threaten you like that. The guy is full of BS saying things like "I'll get you blocked" and, "The quote isn't notable." You really just have to laugh in pity at them. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Hannibalcaesar (talk • contribs) 22:48, 14 April 2014 (UTC)[reply]

How can you promote multiculture AND anti-whitness, and what is anti-whitness? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 195.0.176.100 (talk) 17:46, 24 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]

There is some controversy surrounding some of the public remarks of Barbara Lerner Spectre. They include her opinion that Europe isn't competent to create its own culture and requires the assistance of the Jews in this matter or else it won't survive. This has caused many Westerners to consider her arrogant and presumptuous, despite her soft-spoken demeanor. Although she is kindly of aspect and speaks as though she were a teacher of great patience, her expressed opinion toward Western non-Jewish culture is contemptuous, implying that only the Jews are qualified to "doctor" everything that is "wrong" with Europe. 70.100.194.223 (talk) 14:19, 5 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

"I think there’s a resurgence of antisemitism because at this point in time Europe has not yet learned how to be multicultural, and I think we’re gonne be part of the throes of that transformation, which must take place. Europe has not yet learned how to be multicultural. Europe is not going to be the monolithic societies that they once were in the last century. Jews are going to be at the center of that. It’s a huge transformation for Europe to make. They are now going into a multicultural mode, and Jews will be resented because of our leading role. But without that leading role, and without that transformation, Europe will not survive." 24.127.63.213 (talk) 08:14, 10 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]

When one googles "Barbara Lerner Spectre", all but the very first result (which is wikipedia, of course) are related to that quote. Web pages, videos, images. It might not be the most significant thing she's ever done, but the internet thinks it is. 204.111.99.33 (talk) —Preceding undated comment added 18:58, 6 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

They do that all the time: http://racetraitor.org/abolishthepoint.html --41.151.133.1 (talk) 10:02, 2 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Should be a part of this entry, and should link to the youtube video and quote others have referenced. In essence, she makes the claim that it is and should be the role of Jews to make European homelands less "homogenous" while she staunchly supports a Jewish only ethnarchy.

She's simply a hypocrite, and very arguably is a Jewish supremacist, married to a rabbi, and no doubt adheres to the more racialist and xenophobic passages of the Talmud and Torah, however whitewashed those books are on Wikipedia - anyone with an internet connection can find violent and vile passages in the Koran, and they can do it for the Talmud as well.

She essentially moved from the US to Israel, got her marching orders, then moved to Sweden for the express purpose, really, of denying to the Swedes and other Europeans she, in her religion-based hypocrisy, what she demands for her own "tribe."

This can be described dispassionately, but it is absurd not to discuss it - as someone noted, her claim to fame is her anti-European, bizarre, and I'd contend racist {at least hypocritical} quote.

And by the way, Abby Martin's entry was denied because she wasn't a significant enough figure. Why does Spectre get one, but then no mention of her Jewish Supremacist views?

Hasbara patrols? http://wikispooks.com/wiki/Wikipedia%27s_Hasbara — Preceding unsigned comment added by 50.136.53.238 (talk) 00:11, 8 February 2014 (UTC)[reply]

This isn't a forum for discussing the subject of articles, but for ways of improving their articles. Newbies often make that mistake.

I have reverted the relevant edit on grounds of WP:UNDUE and WP:OR. After reading the above one can legitimately add WP:SOAPBOXING amongst others that come to mind.

An example that might fall on more fertile ground would be Mitt Romney's famous 47% gaffe, which seriously checked or possibly even reversed his US presidential ambitions. Speaking at a private fund-raising event where he presumably felt he was off the record, Romney was in fact secretly filmed making his comments. The footage turned up months later in MSM. Now, if a Wikipedian had filmed those remarks, uploaded it to a social media site and then attempted to edit Romney's BLP at Wikipedia linking the footage, it would have been immediately reverted by overseers on precisely WP:UNDUE and WP:OR grounds. To this day, as far as I know, the incident isn't recorded on Wikipedia, though of course by now there are numerous secondary RS that attest it.

Exactly the same thing applies here, with the significant exception that there are no secondary sources whatsoever that interest themselves in the affair. Only the contributing editors appear to be lifting their shirtails over the issue and they should stop abusing Wikipedia to further their personal agendas in this way. Lizzy B52 (talk) 10:08, 16 April 2014 (UTC)[reply]

You Bring up two objections to including the quote from the Israel Broadcasting Authority video, "The Jewish Community of Sweden", in the article. The first is that there is no reliable source documenting the quote. The video itself is cited. There is no question about its accuracy. It is a primary source. Second you bring up the question of neutrality and undue weight. The Romney example you cite is not relevant here because Romney's words were not for public attribution while BLS spoke these words in a very public way where she knew many people would see her actually speaking them in the program and she decided to say them. The words carry weight in that they have created a significant amount of interest in BLS, as indicated by the several thousand page visits to this page in the last few months and the Google search priority. Also you put your comment in the wrong section. Obviously the person who started this section is not familiar with how Wikipedia works and his comments are irrelevant. Bringing them up and personal agendas and so forth is a kind of straw man, it seems to me.